Tuesday's Hot Coals: Fancy Math Edition

by Justin Azevedo on Aug 2, 2011 5:00 AM PDT in Hot Coals

So, the New York Islanders failed to gather the support needed to finance their "Lighthouse Project" and barring a miracle in the form of a New York-based investors group, will likely be gone from the boroughs in 2015-the year their stadium lease ends. Now, personally, I'm of the opinion that stadiums by themselves don't actually have any positive impact in relation to the local economy and billionaires should realize that there are costs involved with owning a sports team; but if the Lighthouse Project was actually intended to be a total entertainment complex and not just a ruse to get funding for an arena (when taken in context with owner Charles Wang's claims of $200 million plus losses), then I can understand why people would've voted yes. Then there's that whole "build it and they will come" fallacy, which essentially propagates loss and the matter of Nassau being the worst stadium in North America. Of course I feel bad for Isles fans, but sometimes the economics just don't work.

It'll be interesting in the next while when this type of debate opens up in Calgary. Would I be willing to pay $50 a year for an arena here? Simply put, no. This franchise has sold out 260 straight games. The average ticket price in the Saddledome is $159 per seat. Multiply that by 19,289 (how sad is it that I don't even need to check that) and by 41, and you get $125,744,991-or, twice what the salary cap is. I understand that the numbers aren't quite that simple, but coupled with the finances the owners already have access to, these guys don't need help to build an arena-and they have no leverage to get taxpayers to commit to it. Would anyone take a threat about moving seriously? I doubt it.

Links after the jump.

Puck Daddy explores the options after last night's vote. [Puck Daddy]

The great Bruce Arthur on sports facilities and economic blackmail. [National Post]

Want to ask T.J. Brodie a question? [Flames]

Always love looking at this panorama. [Wikipedia]

I've been saying faceoff wins are overrated for the better part of a year now, but Cam Charron puts together some fancy charts to prove it. [Flames Nation]

This is a few days old, but if you haven't read it, you should. I'm of the opinion CorsiRELQCOMP is the best stat we have for measuring the effectiveness of a player. [Arctic Ice Hockey]

Your song for today:

(via t heNYCbunny on YouTube)

Have a great Tuesday, everyone.

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Thanks Justin for taking this one while I’m on vacation!

Matchsticks and Gasoline

by ArikJames on Aug 2, 2011 5:19 AM PDT reply actions

technically LI isn’t a borough.
just sayin’. ;)

by walkinvisible on Aug 2, 2011 7:06 AM PDT reply actions

I am fascinated to know where the idea came from that a new arena would “save” the Islanders. Unless it was going to magically cure the systemic and persistent gross mismanagement by the cadre of boobs Wang assembled, then the team on the ice was still going to suck no matter how shiny the new place.

With all due respect to Islander fans, the tax payers did the right thing. Handing dollars over to Wang et al would be about as useful as lighting them on fire.

Flames Nation
The Score

by Kent Wilson on Aug 2, 2011 8:14 AM PDT reply actions

I can’t disagree with you…with the US economy in the toilet that it’s in right now, it was a TERRIBLE time to have such a poll. Whoever chose to put it on the ballot when the country itself is on the verge of financial crisis should probably be flogged with a wet noodle — asking for more money to finance private projects in this day and age? Are you mad, man?

HOWEVER, I can’t see how it would be different if it was later in the year, say when the US usually has their elections (early November). Albeit more people will turn out (the vote for this one was really, really low) but with the financial crisis running at fever pitch…man alive, for a businessman, Charles Wang is a complete knob.

by John Leung on Aug 2, 2011 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions

also, technically speaking, there have not been that many sellouts. and i suggest this because of the seat next to my dad’s seasons that is always available for the shitty games like minny and colorado.

by walkinvisible on Aug 3, 2011 10:02 PM PDT reply actions

A sellout isn’t counted by the amount of people who go through the gates, it’s counted by tickets sold. If tickets are sold to a third party (e.g. Sportchek) it counts in the sellout calculation. Also, every season ticket gets counted, regardless if the people show up or not.

Matchsticks and Gasoline
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by Justin Azevedo on Aug 3, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions

So, yeah, technically speaking they aren’t sellouts. But they are.

Matchsticks and Gasoline
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by Justin Azevedo on Aug 3, 2011 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Does it count as a sale if I know I could walk up to the ’dome box office at the first intermission and easily buy a seat? I know for a fact that you could for the last season. No “sport chek” seats there.

by mike_H on Aug 4, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Past what I’ve already stated, I don’t know. It’s possible the contract with Ticketmaster counts it as sold or whatever.

Matchsticks and Gasoline
Go Flames Go!
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by Justin Azevedo on Aug 4, 2011 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions

i’m telling you right now, there are unsold seats every game that isn’t toronto, montreal, pittsburgh, washington, or vancouver.

by walkinvisible on Aug 4, 2011 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions

Then the team doesn’t bother to report them, which makes it even more unforgivable that they might ask for public funds.

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by Justin Azevedo on Aug 4, 2011 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions

My assumption is that the team/owners buy them back and maintain the sellout.

On begging the government… I think you logically have to put in a request for public funds to build a stadium. Governments at all levels have shown that they are very wishy-washy on their decisions around this item, so you never know when you might hit them during a weak moment. Picking up the lacrosse team ensures they have a few more occupied days, so between the Flames, Hitmen, NLL, Stampede, and a normal concert season, they have a pretty good argument for economic spin-offs. I don’t know how important it would be to their position that there a few unsold seats for the flagship tenant.

by mike_H on Aug 5, 2011 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions

Oh, I’m sure they will put a bid in and like you say it makes sense for them to do so. No one ever wants to spend money they don’t have to.

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MOCK DRAFT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD

by Justin Azevedo on Aug 5, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions

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