The Western Conference has Spoken--Flames to Finish 13th?
Ahead of the upcoming NHL season, Derek Zona of The Copper n' Blue recently conducted a survey of SBN's Western Conference bloggers, asking each manager to estimate where all 15 teams will rank when 82 games are in the books come April.
The results probably won't surprise many regular readers; when the votes were counted, the predictions for the Flames averaged out to a grim 13th place.
After the jump, a look at why the Flames could potentially fall to third-worst in the West in 2011-12.
1) Lack of "elite" forwards:
Stop me if you've heard this one before. The Flames' core group of forwards is aging; players like Jarome Iginla, Alex Tanguay, and Olli Jokinen are less and less likely to produce the point totals they once did and the likes of Curtis Glencross and Rene Bourque, while good players, can't be consistently relied upon to carry the load.
During the off-season, Jay Feaster traded Daymond Langkow, the Flames' best centre and one of their best tough-minutes options at forward for Lee Stempniak, who--although certainly younger and cheaper--is essentially another spare part (see also: Stajan, Matt and Hagman, Niklas) on a Flames squad lacking elite talent.
While Mikael Backlund might see an increased role this season when he returns to the lineup and Roman Horak might turn out to be a player yet, it seems unlikely that either player will be a major difference-maker in 2011-12.
2) Aging starting goaltender:
After another mediocre season in 2010-11, don't expect the soon-to-be 35-year-old Miikka Kiprusoff to bounce back to his 2009-10 level of play any time soon. He might have a slightly better year solely based on percentages alone, but if he plays at a similar level as he did last season it will be even tougher for the Flames to avoid a shortened season for a third consecutive year.
3) Unknown commodities on the blueline:
After the trade that sent Robyn Regehr to Buffalo this summer, the Flames' blueline is in somewhat of a state of disarray. Regehr won't be missed for his offence but he regularly took on the opposition's best players. Now, that role inevitably falls to Jay Bouwmeester, Mark Giordano, and potentially Scott Hannan as the next best players in the Flames' stable of rearguards. After that, the quality of players in the rotation drops off. Cory Sarich (if he's healthy) likely remains the next best defender, then there's Chris Butler, Anton Babchuk, Brett Carson (whose injury status is also questionable) and then a variety of other bottom-pairing options (Jordan Henry, Derek Smith), neither of whom are likely to be much better than the next.
That lineup doesn't inspire much confidence for a variety of reasons; while Bouw is more than capable of playing top competition, the same cannot yet be said of Mark Giordano, and any situation in which Cory Sarich and Anton Babchuk could potentially form your second pairing at some point is one that I don't want to see realized. Even with Regehr in the lineup last season, the Flames' defence was shoddy at times; without him, some players will be forced to play outside of their comfort zones where quality of competition is concerned, and it's hard to believe that the backend is in for much of an improvement this season.
4) The percentages:
While Miikka Kiprusoff might be in line for an improvement this season, several players who had better than average or bounce-back seasons might not be; I'm looking at you Iginla, Glencross, and Bourque. All three scored at a rate higher than their career averages last season. Alex Tanguay and Brendan Morrison are two other players who might find it tough to replicate their 2010-11 success. If the Flames continue to be a relatively successful puck-possession team, this might not be as much of an issue, but a lack of scoring from the top two lines still puts an unnecessary burden on the remainder of the forward corps to score as well as an added pressure on the defence to limit chances and the goaltenders to prevent goals against.
Stay tuned for my reasons why the Flames won't be bottom-feeders, coming up next.
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Stop me if you've heard this one before...
Every offseason the Flames are expected to drop off, and this year seems to be no different. Year in, year out, its the same old song and dance.
Sure, they traded away Regehr, and Langkow, but Olli is certainly re-defining himself into a better two way player, and Hannan will essentially replace Regehr’s minutes, style, at a fraction of the cost.
Are the Flames worse than Colorado? Minnesota? Edmonton? Phoenix? Dallas? St. Louis? Columbus? I would say no to all of these, at least on paper. I still see the Flames finishing anywhere from 6-9th, but nowhere near the bottom that many are predicting.
I keep forgetting Hannan is a Flame. If everything goes wrong then yeah, I could see the Flames finishing in 13th, but as it stands I think anywhere from 7th to 10th is a more realistic prediction. I don’t see them dropping off any more significantly than they have in the past two years…yet.
St. Louis is going to surprise a lot of people this year I think. They had some of the best underlying numbers around, just lousy percentages. Columbus suddenly looks formidable as well…if they can get any kind of goaltending, they should be in the mix.
Outside of that, yeah…I doubt the Flames fall that far in standings. Something would have to go completely off the rails for that to happen.
I doubt the Flames fall that far in standings. Something would have to go completely off the rails for that to happen.
Agree – 13th is just too low. Phx, Dallas, etc – these team got weaker. The Wild are no sure fire finish over the Flames and Colorado better hope Varlamov works out. The bubble teams will be battling hard but no one should be overly confident about predicting the West’s final two playoff spots…
Do you expect the ducks or the Preds to be there again? The Ducks rode the highest percentages did they not? Even Phoenix I think is out with suspect goaltending. With St Louis in, I can see Calgary and one of those teams mentioned above making it (or maybe even Columbus).
the Preds will be there. they have an elite goalie, solid top 4 and lots of offensive depth. the only thing they’re missing is a legit scoring threat.
by Justin Azevedo on Oct 6, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m not so pessimistic. I don’t expect anything extraordinary, but I think the Flames remain a bubble team with as good a chance of missing the playoffs as making the playoffs.
St. Louis could potentially turn a corner, and Columbus could also fight for a playoff spot this year, but I agree with DownGoesLuongo, the rest of that junk will not finish ahead of the Flames. I do agree that the Flames have too many of the same guy in the forward ranks, and need to get some younger elite level talent. Zach Parise and Ryan Suter will be Flames yet!!!
as an outsider, who do you have coming up for G
I am an Islander fan, and reading this post concerning Kiprusoff’s age made me wonder. What type of G prospects do you have in the system?
I see Karlsson lised as the backup, is he ready to take the reins?
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
is he ready based on skill level? no. might he need to be ready based on need? yes.
Irving and Ortio are the prospects next up, but Irving hasn’t really shown that he’s a dominant tendy at the AHL level and Ortio has played about 5 games outside of Europe & he’s only 20 so he’s nowhere near ready. like the rest of Calgary’s system, I’m of the opinion there’s not a lot of potential (of course, that statement depends on the further development patterns of the two, but I’m not that confident).
by Justin Azevedo on Oct 5, 2011 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I doubt they finish 13th. Things will go right and things will go wrong, but I see them finishing between 10th and 8th, depending on how the percentages roll.
There is no way they will drop to 13th. That was my prediction on the podcast, and my predictions NEVER come true.
If that’s the case, couldn’t you have said “I predict that the Flames are not going to win a Cup this year”.
by Avalain on Oct 5, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If only I had that much control, but just in case, the Flames are DEFINITELY not going to win a Cup this year.
Mostly I made that prediction for a bartender I know who is one of those fans who’s support is unwavering, but doesn’t have any relation to reality (“Stanley Cup in 2012!!!”). I think it particularly annoys him because I know just enough to shoot down his dreams of reaching the finals, and then make an argument for a 13th place finish using all of the same negative arguments Hayley lists above. (I always knew she could read my mind. I’m going to have to make myself a new tinfoil hat.)
What a crock of shit. 7-10 with an outside chance of being slot better if Kipper has a Tim Thomas-like bounceback season.
by Jeremywilhelm on Oct 5, 2011 1:38 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Anaheim, Dallas, Edmonton, Minnesota and Phoenix are waaaaaaaaaaay worse off statistically and on paper than the Flames.
by Jeremywilhelm on Oct 5, 2011 1:42 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
They had all of those players last year minus Hiller and yet still only got into the playoffs on the statistical anomaly that was Perrys 50 goal season. They are not as good as they seemed last year. One line and one good defenseman does not make a good team anymore.
by Jeremywilhelm on Oct 5, 2011 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m inclined to agree with Jeremy here…which may be a first? haha.
Perry will not have the season he had last year and who knows how effective Hiller will be? Also, I seem to recall Fowler riding the percentages pretty god damn hard.
by Justin Azevedo on Oct 5, 2011 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Why do the Ducks always get their senior line overlooked as we fret about the aging Flames. Selanne is awesome but at 41? That drop off has to happen along with Koivu (36 going on 37) and Blake (38).
Because a) Selanne is basically the avatar of the Hockey Gods and b) nobody expects anything but defensive play from Koivu/Blake these days while people expect offense from the Flames older players.
wait…so Perry, Getzlaf and Ryan will be getting all of the offensive minutes? that leaves Selanne with the defensive players though. there is no way the defence and goaltending will be able to hold up like they did last season with one scoring line-because that’s all they have if Koivu, Blake and Selanne are playing “defensive minutes”.
by Justin Azevedo on Oct 6, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Perry won’t shoot 17%, no, but I’d expect him to a) increase shots taken relative to last year and b) shoot about 13-14%, which even at last years rate is still gonna be enough for top 3 in goals.
Also, Fowler was an 18 year old rookie straight out of the CHL. Chances are he’ll be a hell of a lot better. He certainly looked a lot better at the end of the season.
A four person line? Huh.
Also: Lubo (who’s pretty good now that he’s not an Oiler), Lydman, and Beauchemin- while not a star heavy set of D- are pretty serviceable.
the first two are still really good-but they had absurdly high PDO’s and Lydman’s had some nagging injury troubles the past couple of years.
by Justin Azevedo on Oct 6, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Western Conference... Divided
I think there is a clear line in the conference when it comes to really good teams.. and the rest. Calgary falls amongst the rest. But, they are among the better of that group.
While I don`t see Calgary finishing top 5 with the likes of Van, Chi, SJ and LA, I can see them finishing 6th or 7th. Call me the crazy optimist, but I think this team has started to turn a corner, and are on the right path. Finishing 13th.. I don`t see it happening, but if it did, the whole organization should be burned to the ground. Just won`t happen.

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