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Around SBN: The Eternal Unpredictability of the 2011-12 Boston Celtics

Rene Bourque Up for Grabs?

Darren Dreger started a little bit of a hoopla yesterday on his Insider Trading segment on NHL on TSN.  He suggested that Rene Bourque, and his 3.3 million over the next 5 years, is being asked about by teams around the league. 

This isn't exactly earth-shattering news as, despite being very productive goal-wise, Bourque's hardly the first name to come to mind in the Flames blogosphere as an untouchable.  In fact, he's been a little bit of a whipping boy over the past couple seasons for his possession numbers and general lack of punch.

The fact remains that, on the surface, he is a proven goal-scorer and potentially strong two-way forward who can play in all situations.  He has an excellent shot and good speed.  So, is this something that Feaster should be exploring and what exactly would the team be looking for in return?

Star-divide

For me, the first thought that comes to mind when there's any Flames trade speculation is that, unfortunately, Jay Feaster is going to be the man making this deal.  In his career, Feaster notably overpays for players acquired and undersells the assets he's unloading.  Not a great combination for a GM and his moves so far in Calgary have been somewhat indicative of that notion; pending further development. So, right off the bat I'm a little wary of any trades that could potentially be made by Feaster but at the same time, I'm oddly curious to see if he'll pull off another underwhelming swap.

Bourque was acquired by Daryl Sutter for a 2nd-round pick prior to the 2008-2009 season. At the time, I felt it was a bit of an overpayment for a speedy penalty-killer who could pot 15 goals. However, Bourque would have an incredibly productive season for the Flames and his injury late in the season put a huge damper on their chances of making any noise in the playoffs. He was a menace on the forecheck and penalty kill, used his speed and checking to create havoc and scored 21 goals in 58 games. 

In 09-10, he continued to be productive, netting a career-high 27 goals and then following suit with another 27 goal campaign last year. He's earned a lot of fans in the city, yet gets hammered in the online community. Let's look at the numbers (from Behind The Net)

2008-2009 2009-2010 2010-2011
CORSI 8.01 5.19 -3.87
REL CORSI -4.0 1.9 -9.8
OZ STARTS 57.1 52.4 52.6
QoC 0.037 0.067 0.021
QoT 0.069 -0.033 -0.012
PDO 1050 1011 989

 

Bourque was given quite favorable ice-time and circumstances in his first season with the Flames and was very productive prior to his injury. In year 2, although his zone stars came down he started getting opportunities on the PP and remained a very solid and generally reliable player for the Flames.  Aside from the numbers, his speed and forecheck continued to be a huge factor for the team. 2010-2011 started with a bang, a hat-trick early and 6 goals in 6 games, but it all went downhill from there as you can see by his possession numbers that fell right off.

I'll bring up the comfort factor again that I think many of the Flames veteran's have fell victim to.  2010-2011 was the first year of Bourque's fancy new 6 year, 20 million dollar deal that he signed during the Vancouver Olympics.  His play dropped off noticeably.  We still get glimpses of his speed and tenacity but it seems to have been replaced for the most part by a lot of complacency. I was very excited for last season to see just what Bourque could accomplish.  He was starting to take pieces of Jarome's game and add them to his own; he was starting to look like he could become a legitimate perennial 35-goal scorer... he turned in a hugely disappointing season.

If Bourque is to continue the trend he began last season, then I say, get rid of him while his back-to-back 27 goal seasons can still get you a decent return. The sample size of this season is small, but his current CORSI is -13.95 for this season, FYI. A 2nd-round pick would have to be the starting point as that's what it took to acquire him and that was all based on potential. But, I would expect slightly more, somewhere in the neighborhood of a prospect or young NHLer AND a 2nd-round pick.

However, my personal stance is that he should not be traded because given proper accountability and motivation, Rene Bourque should be able to easily return to the form that he was showing prior to last season.  Look at Todd Bertuzzi; he was the KING of complacency in Calgary.  Mike Babcock has turned him into a very useful player in Detroit. I'm not saying he's putting out a herculean effort or anything, but compared to his effort in Calgary... Look at Dion Phaneuf; slowly but surely he's returning back to the player that we all thought he could be as he gets rid of the bad habits that were plaguing his game in Cowtown.  If Rene Bourque were to be traded to a Pittsburgh or Detroit, you'd see that old Bourque come back.  Do you think Mike Babcock or Dan Bylsma would allow him to float around on shifts?  To not take those hard strides needed to force turnovers or recover defensively?  That's exactly what he's getting away with in Calgary as his comfort level has risen to an all-time high. 

Go ahead and trade Bourque if you like, Feaster.  But, I can guarantee you, the piece that you bring back, should that asset be NHL-ready - would eventually fall into the comfort trap themselves. 

I've kind of painted the picture of a catch-22 here and it's exactly how I feel.  Barring a major change in what's demanded of the players on the ice, which I don't think management or the coaching staff even see as a problem, then Bourque is never going to return to the responsible, goal-scoring power-forward that we all remember.  But, there are coaches and organizations out there that will be able to extract that talent back out of him should Feaster choose to trade him. And, on top of that, the Flames would be saddled with whatever underwhelming return Feaster would be able to muster for him.

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Look at Todd Bertuzzi; he was the KING of complacency in Calgary. Mike Babcock has turned him into a very useful player in Detroit.
I dont think so. Bert is the same as he ever was: a liability at ES. Bert had the second worst relative corsi on the Wings last year. He was underwater again the year before that despite a ZS north of 55%. And that’s despite spending some time with Zetterberg, Datsyuk and or Franzen at ES. His scoring rate has been pedestrian as hell too.

On Bourque, this year will prove if Langkow and percentages were floating his boat previously. If so, the team needs to divest themselves of his length contract post-haste.

by Kent Wilson on Oct 19, 2011 9:59 AM PDT reply actions  

I don’t see Bourque returning to his previous self. But, should Feaster choose to trade him, I hope he doesn’t do the ‘salary-dump’ trade like Regehr/Langkow and not bring back equal value. Sure, getting rid of Bourque’s possible long-term mistake would then be great, but I still want value for an asset!

by Scott Lepp on Oct 19, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

also, re: Bertuzzi. Ouch, last year was quite abysmal for big Bert. However, 09-10 was much much better and MUST be what I was referencing ;)

by Scott Lepp on Oct 19, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Waiting on Langkow then dumping him was shortsighted-bad for team morale too-get rid of all the Itvanis type salaries first. Langkow is a no.1 centre. Aside-Jokinen looks great this year.

by budgie d on Oct 20, 2011 6:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Langkow dump is part of the retool. It is happening for better or worse. I think you can make a fair case that the Flames are slightly weaker this year over last but that is part of what happens in a quasi rebuild.

Langkow had no place in a future Flames team after this year. Stempy may earn himself a contract or he may be a better piece of trade bait at the deadline.

by Mitch Smith on Oct 20, 2011 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nailed it here, Mitch. Let’s hope Stempniak plays well enough to EARN a contract!

by Scott Lepp on Oct 20, 2011 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think you wait. You need him to make playoffs (hahahahahahahaha). I dont think his trade value will drop if the team falls off either. He brings alot of intangibles to the game when motivated.

Hold on to him and hope He and Stajan and Sarich can bring back a good player and a pick near the deadline or something. I dunno, im a terrible armchair GM.

Oh and Ivanans on waivers, Sutter was an idiot to sign him to a 2 year in the first place.

by Jeremywilhelm on Oct 19, 2011 10:28 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Ivanans. Couldn’t agree more. I was cheering like an Oiler fan when he got dropped. Now that he’s OK I feel like I can admit that.

by Scott Lepp on Oct 19, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Now looks like a great time to trade Bourque. Good counting numbers with weak underlying stats is the perfect recipe to scoop a promising young player from some other team. It will likely weaken us this year, which is unfortunate, but if the right player comes back, it’s definitely worth it. Especially since the extra cap space would open up other trading options.

by ngthagg on Oct 19, 2011 6:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Pretty much exactly what I would say too. I’d also add that he’s fucking glass, so that is also a consideration

by Justin Azevedo on Oct 19, 2011 6:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Borque too valuable to Flames

Calgary lacks depth and blue chip prospects to step in, Borque is too valuable to Calgary. You can\t replace him easily. The offer would have to be amazing to pry him away. OK, if Pittsburgh offered Letang and Kunitz I’d be tempted-thats unlikely. Calgary needs another defenceman but not one for one for Borque. At some point in future NHL history Calgary will get the better end of a trade-it hasn’t happened too often or in recent dealings. Borque for a second round pick was a great trade-don’t mess with it=and definitely don’t ever trade with Toronto or Buffalo again.

As far as Itvanis and other tough guys-whats the point-you have to fight Nugent Hopkins or Hall-the days of fighting are dwindling in favour of exciting rookies playing. What was the point of paying Brian Mcgratton to never see the ice? He rehabbed in Calgary only to be let go. Calgary likes to have a full sick bay=rehab the players then let them go elsewhere after absorbing all the doctor bills and physio bills.

We should trade Itvanis for a DJ in the dome=anyone else notice how bad it is? Same friggin Wolfmother tune over and over and some screeching Newfie HillBilly type thing-let the organist and trumpet player take over.

by budgie d on Oct 19, 2011 7:18 PM PDT reply actions  

I think you are overvaluing Bork. He is a good player but a good trade will help both teams and he is a good piece to move for the Flames given their depth on the Wing.

Bork is stuck behind Iggy and Tangs at the moment and a case could be made that he could play 1st line on some teams. His shot and speed should be well recognized in the NHL as should be a much greater upside, his value to the Flames stuck down on 3rd line is talent wasted.

Bork also goes through these periods where he simply looks disinterested in playing hockey and I don’t blame him given his placement on the team. I move him for a good return. I threw my proposal out there to the Penguins.

by Mitch Smith on Oct 20, 2011 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

budgie d: I wouldn’t give Bourque quite that much value, but I have to agree with your analysis on the music at the ’dome. Seriously, does Cotton-Eyed Joe have any business being played anywhere… ever…. ???

by Scott Lepp on Oct 20, 2011 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

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