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Around SBN: Miikka Kiprusoff Wins 300th Game, Buffalo Crushes Boston

Continuing Reaction: What to do About Darryl

Probably my favourite picture of Darryl Sutter ever.

Over the past seventy-two hours since the Flames' official elimination from post-season contention, much has been said on the topic of well, everything, but mostly management, and specifically GM Darryl Sutter. None of it is remotely positive (rightfully so), and all presents rather condemning evidence. Missing the playoffs alone is not the cause for this sentiment, but rather, the straw that broke the camel's back; the cherry on top of an ice-cream sundae of mistakes that have been compounded over time like DDT or mercury or some other form of toxicity over the past few seasons. The signing of aging core players to restrictive, expensive, multi-year deals with no-trade clauses, the Olli Jokinen trade, overspending on defence and overspending in general, the lack of  viable young prospects ready to assume a regular position with the team, the lack of return from the Phaneuf trade, acquiring Ales Kotalik,  and trading for Steve Staios. These are all glaring and prominent examples of Sutter's missteps as a general manager, and each certainly deserves equal attention in the evaluation of his tenure and the predicament the Flames currently find themselves in, as each has likely contributed to the franchise's current state as much as the next. 

These mistakes have all compromised the team's present and foreseeable future and created a John-Ferguson-Junior-esque mess which can likely only be sorted by someone from outside the organization; someone with a fresh perspective on the game whose knowledge extends beyond the understanding of the outdated concepts of "size," "grit," "leadership," and "toughness."  Furthermore, nearly each move has been made in effort to "fix" a previous error--a bad contract, lack of cap space, a trade that didn't work out, or to improve upon an area in which the team was lacking because of his own doing. The only analogy I can think to use that woud properly describe Sutter's reign as Flames GM is a string of Christmas lights. Behind every knot you untie and every snag you smooth out, there's another one waiting; and if you'd just put them away properly last year, you wouldn't have had to worry about untangling them in the first place. 

Star-divide

 

Here's what I had to say on the subject after the trade deadline: 

After signing both Bourque and Stajan to reasonable but lengthy contract extensions in recent weeks and acquiring Steve Staios and his $2.7 million cap hit for next season, the money Sutter saved by unloading Phaneuf is once again tied up in a group of fairly average players. Rather than using the cap space to chase a player the Flames actually need in the off season, like, I don't know, a first line centre or winger, and giving himself some flexibility under the cap going forward, he has again dug himself a hole in salary cap hell. There seems to be a pattern here; for every step forward, Darryl Sutter takes two steps back.

I really do respect Darryl's continued efforts to build a winning team; his dedication to making this franchise competitive year after year really is amazing, and he certainly cannot be criticized for lack of trying.

He has always had the right intentions, but some of his efforts have been misguided and old fashioned. At the end of the day, it's not his fault that the players he signs don't perform as expected, but this time it seems that he's made one too many mistakes and has played all his cards. The only real bargaining chips he has left are the big name players--Iginla, Kiprusoff, Regehr, Bouwmeester--and trading one or more of them would almost certainly mean the beginning of the dreaded "rebuild."

Since Ken King essentially admitted that Sutter has an "infinite" contract, It can be assumed that the only way we will see him go is if he resigns when he sees fit. Maybe missing the playoffs will help that process along. I just hope it happens sooner rather than later before I resent him forever for paralyzing the franchise with bad contracts and a murky future, which will likely be pretty damn soon.
A fairly tentative assessment at the time, when it was all most of my fellow bloggers could do to hold back the profanity-laced tirades following the acquisition of  press-box seat warmer Ales Kotalik and even more so once "Steady Steve" Staios was welcomed into the fold. My opinion has not changed since then, but my choice of words, after watching this team fail to earn a post-season beth, would certainly be more harsh, more forceful.

George Johnson of the Herald had this to say today:

...Darryl Sutter and this city will always have the spring of 2004. His flinty and iron-fisted rule reinvigorated a drifting franchise, pushed it to the brink, a game, a controversial goal, of a slice of startling immortality. It was a wild, wonderful ride. And for that alone, he deserves a place of honour in this organization's archives.

In terms of personnel, he brought in Miikka Kiprusoff (saints be praised!), Daymond Langkow, Rene Bourque, signed an unwanted free agent named Mark Giordano, drafted Mikael Backlund.

Sutter also airlifted in Tony Amonte, Bryan Marchment, Jeff Friesen, Todd Bertuzzi, etc., etc. Jettisoned nearly every one of the staunch supporting cast with an outgoing personality -- Martin Gelinas, Andrew Ference, Chris Clark, Shean Donovan, etc., etc. -- following the '04 run because they weren't his type of players. Has spent like Victoria Beckham on a Fifth Avenue shopping spree for average talent, and then, miraculously, been subsequently praised for shedding salaries he agreed to in the first place.

Two more years of Ales Kotalik at $3 million per?

Really, there are limits. Or should be.

Hard to disagree with anything said there. HNIC's Elliotte Friedmen chimed in with a piece of his own:

...If you don't win, long-term deals can become anchors.
 
Kiprusoff continues to be one of the best goalies in the league...Regehr, like two other big-ticket Sutter signings - Daymond Langkow and Cory Sarich - slowed noticeably this season. All three of them are locked in for at least two more years. Both Regehr and Langkow have no-move clauses.

The Flames are now committed to $53 million for 17 players next year; $47 million for 12 in 2011-12; and $30 million for six (!) in 2012-13. White is a restricted free agent this summer, Giordano a UFA next year. This is not going to be an easy roster to manage.

 

Similarly, Kent had this to say in his review of Sutter's performance:

...The team's future has never looked bleaker thanks to his rabidly desperate mid-season machinations. It's one thing to gamble future success for short term gain. It's another thing entirely to make objectively bad bets. Sutter's moves were all with an eye to firming up the team's immediate present. None of them did that. What's more, none of them were likely to do that

The franchise has a bulk of it's dollars committed to players over the age of 30 (Jarome Iginla, Daymond Langkow, Robyn Regehr, Miikka Kiprusoff, the others aforementioned), meaning the core is aging and beyond its peak season(s). It has zero difference makers in the organizational pipeline and, with all of two choices inside the top 60 picks over the next two entry drafts, almost no chance of picking up another one any time soon. The best of Iginla, Kipper, Reghr and Langkow has been squandered. There is precious little in the way of budgetary flexibility and prospects to replace them. The assets in hand have been used almost to the point of obsolence while the currency of the future has been spent.

This is the worst of both worlds.

Glance again at the wreckage of the season. Recognize that it is not ill-fortune but the exercise of principles of operating under a cap environment — principles that Sutter has ceaselessly sought to flout for the purpose of "winning now". Observe that Sutter has now delivered the club back to the apparent hopelessness from whence he retrieved it. 

Finally, Greg Wyshynski offers up his take on the prospect of firing Sutter:

Yet if you're Calgary, you make a change here if you have an undeniably special candidate to fill the position: Steve Yzerman's name comes to mind immediately. If it's someone from within the organization or some retread GM, why bother? The change here needs to be sweeping, not simply someone who fits the suit.

But the two questions for every Flames fan: Will ownership and upper management actually make this change? And is there a better alternative out there?

This is the ultimate question, in my mind. Who are the replacement candidates, and is there someone out there, possibly some unheralded executive or assistant GM, who the franchise would be willing to take a risk on? Just about any alternative looks better than what we're currently saddled with, but there is no guarantee that a new general manager will swoop in and instantly make a difference and push this team in the right direction, as we all saw with Brian Burke and the Leafs. It's going to be a long, difficult, and tedious process to siphon off the ill-advised acquisitions, the long-term, expensive contracts and extensive salary comittments to average and/or declining players poisoning this team, and to reverse their effects on the future of the franchise. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, I suppose. 

We now find ourselves in a situation where, regardless of potential for a new general manager, next season's Flames team will look largely the same as the one that failed to come through on so many occasions this season, with most players already under contract for 2010-11. With the lack of flexibility with this roster, the potential for a rebuild on the fly a lá Philadelphia or to a lesser extent, Colorado, is almost non-existent, barring a miraculous series of trades, buyouts, or demotions. The UFAs this off-season are all support players, at the most--Craig Conroy, Chris Higgins, Eric Nystrom, Jamal Mayers, Brian McGrattan, and Vesa Toskala--and the cap space cleared by the absence of their salaries is almost negligible considering the team's commitment to next season--17 players signed for $53 million--versus its immediate needs. If some or none of these players are re-signed, than whomever is in charge will need to seek out players to fill their roles at equal or better value under the cap, given what precious little dollars there are to work with. Not an easy job in the present-day NHL. The same can likely be said for the years following, where it appears the situation only stands to become more dire, with six players signed for a total of $30 million in 2012-13. 

Is there potential for a better year next season with this roster? It doesn't appear so, but it's impossible to tell. Nobody expected Jay Bouwmeester to score three goals, or David Moss to score eight, or Daymond Langkow and Jarome Iginla to produce their lowest point totals since 1998-99 and 2005-06. Nobody predicted that Kipper would turn in his best performance since winning the Vezina or that the forwards acquired in the Phaneuf and Jokinen trades would score a total of eleven goals in a combined eighty-six games played. Is it likely that things will get worse before they get better, with the aforementioned cap crunch, lack of flexibility with the roster, and lack of draft picks and prospects in mind? Yes, very, but the potential for things to stay the same--with the team hovering in that awful middling territory somewhere between "really bad," "alright," and "really good"-- is probably greater, which is undeniably the most infuriating part of this ordeal. If we think we've already lived through the ides of modern-day perpetual mediocrity after four seasons' worth of first-round exits and one playoff-less spring, we likely haven't seen anything yet. 

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The signing of aging core players to restrictive, expensive, multi-year deals with no-trade clauses

Iginla was 30 when he signed his deal.
Langkow was 31.
Regehr was 26
Kiprusoff was 31
Phaneuf was 21
Bouwmeester was 25
Bourque was 28

the Olli Jokinen trade

In retrospect, yes. At the time, almost everybody in Calgary loved that trade.

the lack of return from the Phaneuf trade

Very debatable opinion at this point. Not necessarily invalid, but Phaneuf hasn’t exactly shown he warrants a bigger return the past two seasons. I think the winner of this trade remains unknown.

Much of the rest I agree with, in part or in whole.

by Resolute on Apr 9, 2010 7:23 AM PDT reply actions  

We didn’t like the Jokinen trade around here, Res. Furthermore, popularity of a move is no gauge of it’s ultimate utility.

I think if Sutter does end up getting canned, that trade (and the subsequent baffling swap for Kotalik) will probably be seen as the beginning of the end for Darryl.

by Kent Wilson on Apr 9, 2010 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wait… is Hayley talking about Jokinen Trade 1 (To Calgary) or Jokinen Trade 2 (To NY)? I’ll fully own up to not thinking Jokinen Trade 1 was a bad idea (Mostly because I don’t have the fondness for Matt Lombardi that other folk around here do) Jokinen as a player had his pluses and minuses it’s just that his pluses stayed south of the border. It’s Jokinen trade 2 that I seriously object to, we had 5.5M in cap relief coming this offseason and Sutter pissed away 60% of it on Ales Kotalik. It’s non-sensical to me.

by Parallex on Apr 9, 2010 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was referring to the 1st trade. I thought it was a bad deal at the time and that the team gave up way to much for a guy whose number had been declining, but that it might have been a necessary risk to make the team better. I too was of the opinion that we didn’t need a “#1 centre,” at the time.

by Hayley on Apr 9, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Certainly there was some opposition to the trade at the time. However, the irony and hypocrisy of so many, ESPECIALLY in the media, trashing Sutter for that deal when they loved it at the time is striking.

Personally, I never felt we needed a “#1 centre” since we already had one in Langkow, but the guy did score 30 several times, and finished with 27 goals last year. The people who felt it was a bad trade from day one certainly can crow about it, but complete idiots like George Johnson and Eric Francis really don’t have that right.

Speaking of George Johnson, I really wish he would just disappear. His constant negative style almost makes me wish Bruce Dowbiggin was back with the Herald.

by Resolute on Apr 9, 2010 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Honestly, the Calgary Sports media are just bad in general, terrible writers who all too often don’t ask the tough questions and refuse to look past their own nose in search of answers. I’m not going to begrudge some for being negative considering the situation we’re in.

by Parallex on Apr 9, 2010 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Johnson’s a special case. He’s just negative in general. It’s actually rather amazing to read everything he’s written, both for the Herald and ESPN. We could win the Cup, and his article would bemoan the fact that the fourth line left wing blew coverage on a certain play in the deciding game.

by Resolute on Apr 9, 2010 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

My issue with the Phaneuf trade is that there are dumber GMs out there like Don Waddell that would of traded you someone like Evander Kane or Zach Bogosian for Phaneuf just because of the impact that trade would make in his market. (I’m not advocating that Kane or Bogosian is the right answer but trying to show the point that some GMs would give the arm and the leg of their future for a name brand like Phaneuf.) Say what you want about Phaneuf’s talent on the ice the last two years he was still hands down the most or second most popular Flame outside of Calgary. Take it from me considering I predominantely watch the Flames live in other arenas than the Dome, but there are people and kids there that are Dion fans, period. The come to see the Flames to see Dion. So his value was higher cause of that. The kicker in all of this is that Daz could of traded him to Florida or Columbus…he didnt have a no movement clause. So that’s where he screwed up imo. Why do we have to get fleeced when we can be the ones fleecing. I’ll never understand why he made that trade with Toronto.

"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.

by KingJafi on Apr 9, 2010 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

As far as I’m concerned we did fleece Toronto in that deal. We traded a defenceman for a better defenseman and got forward depth on top of it.

by Parallex on Apr 9, 2010 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

We got Ian White which was good. Stajan is an OK acquisition. Hagman I expected more and Mayers (like Stajan) is replaceable. IMO

"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.

by KingJafi on Apr 9, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed. White makes that deal. While getting a good difference making forward for him would have been great, I didn’t even know who White was prior to the trade, and he’s quickly become one of my top 5 favourite Flames.

by SmellOfVictory on Apr 9, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s easy to assume that we would have gotten more. And while we might have, it is just as possible that our own expectations are too high as it is that the return we got was too low. Lets face it, Phaneuf’s play does not remotely justify his salary, and his play in Toronto shows it wasn’t just the system in Calgary holding him back.

by Resolute on Apr 9, 2010 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not usually a fan of Johnson either, but I agree with almost everything he said in that article, which is extremely rare.

by Hayley on Apr 9, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

that might have been my favorite article ever written.

by walkinvisible on Apr 11, 2010 1:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

There are three guys on that list who signed their deals in the back half of their prime years, assuming those years are generally from the ages of 26 or 27 to about 32. Those are more so the contracts I’m referring to, as it could be seen at the time that they could cause problems in the future in terms of age vs. Performance and cap hit.
As for the Phaneuf trade, my big issue with it is not the return was bad, but the results have been bad. The trade was made to provide offence and Stajan and Hagman have failed to produce at the same rate as they did in Toronto. I don’t think thw fact that they played on one of the worst teams in the league before coming here is at all relevant to their struggles here. There’s no reason why two skilled players should come from a bad team to a better team and fail to produce unless maybe they’re playing tougher minutes in roles they’re not accustomed to. Now we’re saddled with Stajan’s neww contract, Hagman is only here for another year, and we may not be able to re-sign White. You’re right that Phaneuf’s play didn’t warrant a huge return, but unless White re-signs and we get more out of Hagman and Stajan next season, I don’t know if I see this trade as a win for the Flames.

by Hayley on Apr 9, 2010 1:06 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

agree - we've had worse trades with the Leafs

The entire group was snake bit. The two Toronto forwards – both of the NY guys, Jarome and Daymond ( 9pts in 25 games !!)

Does the lack of production ( for the new guys at least) have something to do with Brent’s regimented system ? Remember in October we were wondering when Iggy would get going, the speculation was relearning how to read and react in Brents system; and then November came along and Iggy was fine. With new forwards on every line, was it just that one step, stick position or spin off the cycle that was missing to create way more offence?

by PrairieStew on Apr 9, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’d like to point out that there is more to the Phaneuf trade than most people know. I won’t discuss this publicly, so don’t ask.

by Colin S on Apr 9, 2010 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Boo on the C-tease.

Although, I may have heard the same rumors, so…

by Kent Wilson on Apr 10, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just figured everyone should know its more than just a hockey trade.

by Colin S on Apr 10, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

that the forwards acquired in the Phaneuf and Jokinen trades would score a total of eleven goals in a combined eighty-six games played

I beg to differ. See my comments the day of the Phaneuf trade and the day we acquired Kotalikmyballs. At that point in time, ripping Daz was still an underground movement. People were too positive and blinded as Flames fans. But seriously step outside the box and look…we traded Phaneuf to a team that couldn’t even make a serious offer for Steve Staios if they tried. Burke was in every sense of the word “screwed” with the roster he had and he didn’t have a 1st rounder. Yet somehow Daz manages to swing a trade with the guy and bring to the Flames some key offensive components of the worst team in the NHL. They are the worst team in the league for a reason! But no…we commend Daz’ effort for trying to improve the team after a 9 game winning streak. I’m sorry, you don’t trade a valuable trading asset like Phaneuf for players from the worst team in the league. Like I’ve said, I don’t have beef with trading Phaneuf but trading him to the Leafs for Leafs players?? That alone is where the guy went batshit this season. I haven’t even gotten into the Jokinen trade and the fact the cat was out of the bag, the fans and the hockey world scratched their heads and he still made the trade. The franchise in the span of two weeks became a laughing stock.

I’ve actually been seriously peeved at this guy since the end of last year when he fired Keenan to hire his brother. He has displayed some very scary tendencies in the years since ‘04. Yet he was always pardoned because it was the coaches or the players fault or whatever. Eyebrows should of been raised when he traded Ferrence for Stuart and Stuart pretty much made it clear he wouldn’t be back. And Stuart was supposed to be a Sutter player, right? I mean the bad moves in the end outnumber the good moves but still. I’ll admit it I was content as long as we made the playoffs…but things started taking its toll two years ago and last year I had enough…yet it was Keenan’s fault (the company line we were fed considering he was an easy fall guy). And things were going to be better when his brother was brought in, right?. Guess not, things got worse and look at the mess we’re in now. No Phaneuf, no first round pick, no serious young talent…but we have Staios and we have Kotalik…and how can I forget we have Chris Higgins! Yay! F.U. Daz. I’m just ranting now…I apologize for my nonsense.

I’ll let Kent’s analysis of Daz at FlamesNation more precisely and coherently speak for my thoughts.

"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.

by KingJafi on Apr 9, 2010 8:37 AM PDT reply actions  

I’m sorry, you don’t trade a valuable trading asset like Phaneuf for players from the worst team in the league.

I think everybody needs to start re-evaluating Mr. Voted-Most-Overrated-By-His-Peers value. Honestly I think trading Phaneaf was the one thing Daz did right this year.

by Parallex on Apr 9, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I dont mind trading Phaneuf, it probably had to done based on the talk he was a problem in the locker room…but see my comment above. Phaneuf had some marketability value like none other on the Flames besides maybe Jarome. I live in Florida…and Phaneuf transcends the ignorance down here. If the Thrashers or Panthers acquired him, the casual fan would of thought they had scored a deal. He sells tickets. That’s why I call him a “valuable trading asset.”

"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.

by KingJafi on Apr 9, 2010 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Are you sure he transcends the ignorance of the fans down there? I ask because in LA (which should rival Florida) the fans I talked to absolutely did not want Phaneuf in LA.

Matchsticks and Gasoline

by maimster on Apr 9, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

People in LA see him play in the Western Conference. Florida and Georgia fans do not.

by Rod Blogojevich on Apr 9, 2010 10:26 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah they are pretty much clueless down here. Ironically they do know Phaneuf about as much as I they know Iginla. When I wear Flames gear of some sort, I’ll get comments about both. California is a little less ignorant and they know a bit more about the game of hockey. Proof in itself is that California is actually producing pro prospects these days where Florida has yet to do so. That’s why I say all of you living in Canada don’t really have an idea how popular Phaneuf actually was in the US. There was something about his slap shot in his rookie year and his hits that just made him an attractive marketing tool for the NHL in non traditional US markets.

"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.

by KingJafi on Apr 9, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

tell the truth

Phaneuf’s popularity tied to Elishia

by PrairieStew on Apr 9, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

not really…that just adds to the legend though

not one down here really knows about Mike Comrie or Mike Fisher and their significant others are much celebrity lists than Ms. Cuthbert, those guys’ games are just plain vanilla from a marketing standpoint

"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.

by KingJafi on Apr 9, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Phaneuf for Stamkos? =D

by SmellOfVictory on Apr 9, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

E would get to wear her bikini more often…..

by PrairieStew on Apr 9, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Brian Lawton is not that dumb or desperate…but I’m pretty sure we could of taken ATL for everything they had.

"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.

by KingJafi on Apr 9, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

What would you think of the Phaneuf trade if Toronto had included Bozak instead of Stajan?

by SmellOfVictory on Apr 9, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

If he can’t play first line centre (I don’t watch Leafs games) then it would not change my opinion at all.

The 4th Line Blog
Go Flames Go

by Justin Azevedo on Apr 9, 2010 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t watch them, either, but he’s a 24 year old who’s putting up pretty decent points (~30 pts in ~40 games). Seems like he might have a higher ceiling than Stajan.

by SmellOfVictory on Apr 9, 2010 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

In all honesty, trading Phaneuf should have been done in the summer right after the team landed Bouwmeester – not in the middle of the season during a losing streak. It was clear in the off-season that the Flames had too much invested in the back-end and were gambling up front. If Daz had made the decision then, he would have had the entire off-season to try to maximize the return.

Instead it was a panic move. I still consider it Sutter’s defensible trade of the season, but one wonders just how much better the return could have been had he handled it more clinically.

by Kent Wilson on Apr 9, 2010 9:13 AM PDT reply actions  

Agreed. Glad you commentary doesn’t get shrouded in frustration and anger like mine. If I could just leave the emotion out of my commentary, maybe I could say stuff that made sense for once.

"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.

by KingJafi on Apr 9, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

See my point below

It’s cause in the summer…it was “defense….full steam ahead.”

Phaneuf fit that mold, because of his dynamic game…which is why I liked him staying, but the forwards weren’t fitting…

so as you said, suddenly it was panic time.

by LawrenceS on Apr 9, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Daz' panic face

this is what Daz looked like right before making the Phaneuf trade

"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.

by KingJafi on Apr 9, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

As I said in the previous post, something has got to give with the mis-match of team philosophy and the personnel

It’s either – 1. defensive, first with speed and youth up front. (Keep the Sutter-isms)
and you build on what you’ve got in Kipper, Jbo, Reggie, Lanks, Mickis, Bourque, Dawes etc.
or

It’s 2. offensive first, with depth through the back-end and power up front (Ditch Sutters)
and you build on what you’ve got in Iggy and Bourque
or

It’s 3. shuffle the deck and re-build completely (unlikely) Ditch everyone.

I think the tug of war between the importance on Kipper, Jbo, Reggie, Dion (previously) and the fowards has gone on too long. We either have little room to move upfront because of the anchors from the blue-line back and upstairs…
or…
we have little room to build a strong defensive philosophy because of Iggy, no draft picks, and no youth.

It’s time to decide.

by LawrenceS on Apr 9, 2010 11:32 AM PDT reply actions  

whoops, forgot Gio in option 1.

Problem is….the Sutters have left a long and dire legacy if we try and turn this boat around now. So many defenders…so much defensive emphasis, so much defense through the ranks. It’s going to be problematic to change that, and Iggy isn’t the ‘two-way’ star we need for 7 million to thrive in that culture.

Think of it as the Kipper <→ Iggy polarity.

by LawrenceS on Apr 9, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

the sizzling frog

Like the story of the frog in the frypan – the heat has slowly been turned up and if we dont jump soon we are dead. The heat was turned up through each coaching change, but really started coming on at the beginning of last year – Keenan 2. Daz clearly saw the closing of the window with Iggy and his peers and pulled the trigger on the Jokinen deal. In retrospect Olli killed the chemistry btw Iggy and Cammy and along with the injuries ( Reghehr, Phaneuf and Bourque) put them behind the 8 ball vs Chicago. If Kipper had played last year, like he did this year, then beating Chicago and Vancouver would have been easy and we are less likely to have been having this conversation. .

This year I think he realized he had to keep trying something in a desperate attempt to win before it is too late for his core guys. Some people might say he made moves to try and save his job; I say he was trying to win – for his guys – Iggy in the main.
Look at the core of the contenders – Washington, Pittsburgh, Chicago – how old are they ? One of those teams will win this spring – at the expense of teams with older core players eg New Jersey, Vancouver, San Jose. Our top 6 salaries don’t match up the the latter group, let alone the former.

It’s option 3 Lawerence – before it is too late – jump out of the frying pan ! ( Yes we will be in the fire for a year but will be able to walk out soon,)

by PrairieStew on Apr 9, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sutter could use an accountant

If an accountant was involved then many of Sutter’s trades wouldn’t have been made. Calgary has few drafts to rebuild with, two prospects and a nephew. Prospects Backlund and Jaffray for sure and maybe Stallman, perhaps Shantz or Keely. The nephew came up from the farm to replace Higgins and Langkow but I’d question it-Jaffray should have been called. It seems a little too much like a family affair but the Sutters are respected and capable. Too bad you can’t trade GMs or Coaches like Players. I’d shake up the family bond, much like Sutter shook the team up by trading Phaneuf.
I can’t believe a draft pick didn’t come with the Phaneuf deal, conditional at least. I would like White and a first round pick for Phaneuf who is young, but I bet TO wanted to get a draft pick back-except we don’t have any to play with-instead they unloaded their roster on us. It looked like Toronto had Cliff Fletcher do another TO-Calgary deal-he’s good at screwing us, maybe has was an adviser. As a business owners only want playoff revenue-so something will happen-maybe they will hire an accountant to check the trade implications in future.

by budgie d on Apr 9, 2010 2:10 PM PDT reply actions  

I’m pretty it’s Daz’ son, not nephew. Make it all the more worse.

"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.

by KingJafi on Apr 9, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jaffray is useless in a 4th line/PK role. Brett Sutter is ideally suited for a 4th line/PK role. Frankly, you are only questioning this because of Sutter’s last name, not becuase of the merits of why he was called up. And, as noted by PrairieStew, Jaffray isn’t a prospect. He’s AHL filler.

by Resolute on Apr 9, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would have preferred VDG, personally, but the issue is moot.

by Kent Wilson on Apr 9, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

stop it

OK – I just set you straight on the other page – but I’m going to do it here too – Jason Jaffray is NOT, I repeat NOT a prospect. He is a 29 year old career minor leaguer with 36 NHL games to his credit. He was signed this past year as a UFA to be a veteran in Abbostford. Don’t let 25 goals in AHL fool you – if he was 21 maybe.

by PrairieStew on Apr 9, 2010 2:22 PM PDT reply actions  

AHL career player is still a prospective call up

You are right, I didn’t realize Jaffray was 29, it still makes it all the more fitting that he should be called up in an emergency-thats what he was signed for. Why not call up your top scorer in the Farm? My point was that it looks suspect, and favoritism for a Sutter, I guess you just want to focus on Jaffray’s age. Lundmark made it to third line starter on Toronto after our former career minor league player was promoted to a starter. Concentrate on Sutter’s actions not Jaffray’s age-I get your point though.

by budgie d on Apr 9, 2010 5:21 PM PDT reply actions  

Why not call up your top scorer in the Farm?

Because “scoring line player” wasn’t the role that they wanted filled. Look I’m as critical of Daz as anyone but if I were going to call someone up to be a PK’er/4th Line checker I’d probably call up Brett too.

by Parallex on Apr 9, 2010 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jaffray's stats-looks decent enough

Here are Jaffray’s stats for last 5 years-he looks like insurance, not a prospect-PrairieStew is correct, but I’d call up my insurance player with NHL experience and incidentally he is a left-winger-that’s what we needed to replace Higgins.

2005-06 Manitoba Moose AHL 73 12 35 47 58 13 6 1 7 11
2006-07 Manitoba Moose AHL 77 35 46 81 75 13 6 7 13 6
2007-08 Manitoba Moose AHL 43 21 27 48 51 3 1 4 5 0
2007-08 Vancouver Canucks NHL 19 2 4 6 19 — — — — —
2008-09 Manitoba Moose AHL 56 23 26 49 52 22 9 10 19 12
2008-09 Vancouver Canucks NHL 14 2 2 4 14 — — — — —
2009-10 Calgary Flames* NHL 3 0 0 0 0
2009-10 Abbotsford Heat AHL 72 25 29 54 70

by budgie d on Apr 9, 2010 5:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Shit, with the way Higgins was shooting, Jaffray would probably outscore him twice over.

by SmellOfVictory on Apr 9, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

like Lundmark?

they only called Lundmark to play on the top 2 lines -as a skill player. Sutter definitely a checker and played on 3/4 line

by PrairieStew on Apr 10, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

All reasonable points, however don’t we think that there is some likelihood (sp?) that J-Bo, Langs, and Moss, among others, have better years next year? Honestly, this year was pretty terrible all the way around, but acting like there’s no upside in any of these guys is a bit myopic too.

by Subversive on Apr 9, 2010 6:46 PM PDT reply actions  

Langks: I doubt there will be much increase in scoring over this year. Moss, maybe. JBo, who the fuck knows. He hasn’t been showing much in the way of offensive aptitude this year – the majority of the shots he has taken are often long-distance wristers or poorly-timed into the pads in front of him.

by SmellOfVictory on Apr 9, 2010 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have no doubt some guys will bounce back: Moss, Langkow and Bouwmeester especially. The issue is, you have to assume some guys will sustain the gains they made this year (Giordano, Bourque, White, Stajan, Dawes, Nystrom come to mind) in order for those rebounds to be meaningful to the team’s success.

Also, I wouldn’t bet money on Kipper performing this well again next year.

by Kent Wilson on Apr 9, 2010 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

If the guys who we want to bounce back do bounce back and the others maintain their pace, he won’t need to perform this well. It’ll be interesting, at the very least, to see what happens.

by SmellOfVictory on Apr 9, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

exactly

add Glencross in to that list of potential overachievers this year. He is someone I have advocating marketing – he provided great value for money this year – but his occasional bonehead giveaways have been frustrating.

Kipper scares me – he drops to a .906 sv % next year and all of a sudden that $5.8 looks as bad as Sarich’s $3.6.

by PrairieStew on Apr 10, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

if you consider the number of games that kipper stole this year, this team should’ve handed phoenix a top ten pick.

by walkinvisible on Apr 11, 2010 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yep - they would have - maybe top 5

Kipper is the MVP for the year for sure, but there is no guarantee he will perform as well next year. A .920 sv % this year, after .906 and .903 the last 2 years. Imagine a .905 – which would equate to an additonal 30 goals against – so instead of 6th in team GAA – tthat would be 21st – which would be ugly with the 29th rated offence.

by PrairieStew on Apr 11, 2010 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do you all think Kiprusoff will be nominated for the Vezina? He would obviously finish 3rd behind Millertime and Bryz but who else could be a candidate?

by Rod Blogojevich on Apr 9, 2010 8:32 PM PDT reply actions  

Howard would be a pretty strong candidate. Probably moreso than Kipper, given the fact that he’s got more wins and (I’m assuming) higher sa/game.

by SmellOfVictory on Apr 9, 2010 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bryzgalov, Andersen, Miller, Vokoun are up there I think.

by Colin S on Apr 9, 2010 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

ah yes Anderson. How could I forget

by Rod Blogojevich on Apr 9, 2010 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Probably because he fell off the face of the earth in the last month or so.

by Resolute on Apr 10, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Vokoun is awesome every year. Does he get nominated much? (I honestly don’t know, but given his craptastic team…)

by SmellOfVictory on Apr 9, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don’t think he’s ever gotten a nod, but he should.

by Colin S on Apr 10, 2010 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

That looks about right to me. It’s a shame that one of Kipper’s best years had to be in a season when all these other goalies played so well.

by Hayley on Apr 10, 2010 9:06 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yep. I’m thinking Vokoun will miss just because of what the other three did for their teams.

by Colin S on Apr 10, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

rank

I looked at GAA, wins and Save % the other day, and ranked the goalies one point for each placement – so lowest score would win, Kipper was top 6 in all three, so he had 3rd lowest score, behind Miller and Bryzgalov. Vokoun, Anderson, Fleury and even Brodeur had at least one of the 3 categories out of the top 10 or so, thus took them out of the running.

by PrairieStew on Apr 10, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bryzgalov or Miller?

Both of these goalies look to be Vezina material. Both played 68 games and had 42 and 40 wins respectively-Praire stew identified the two top goalies.
How about Nabokov? He deserves mention-played 70 games 43 wins decent stats-but an awesome team in front of him helps. He may get a nomination.

by budgie d on Apr 10, 2010 2:24 PM PDT reply actions  

Bryz has been more of a help to his team without him the Yotes’ wouldn’t be even near the playoffs, WIth Miller he’s had an outstanding year but plays on a much more talented team you can’t miss on either one so I think it will come down to who does better in the playoffs.

by CofRed on Apr 10, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Miller for sure. I see him a lot more than you all, and he’s been lights out. Especially when you consider that the best defender in front of his is Tyler Myers- a rookie.

Honestly, if Rask had the start numbers, I’d put him first, unfortunately his body of work is somewhat smallish.

by ArikJames on Apr 10, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Glad to see Sutter's positives acknowledged too

Great post Hayley.

Nice to see you acknowledge acquisitions like Kiprusoff and Rene Bourque as well. Daz has certainly made a mess of the cap with the Jokinen and Staios deals but in the past I’ve been pretty happy with his moves. He’s consistently unearthed guys like Glencross, Giordano and Dawes for very good prices.

The biggest hurt has been in the draft where he’s been absolutely terrible.

I wrote my own long-winded review of Sutter over at Front Office Fans if anyone is interested in tearing it up and giving me some solid feedback.

http://www.frontofficefans.com/2010/4/10/1414436/gm-rating-darryl-sutter#storyjump

Ryan
Front Office Fans &
http://sports-opinionated.com

by SO_RyanP on Apr 10, 2010 6:01 PM PDT reply actions  

How much you wanna bet Daz told Brent to start Kipper last night in a completely meaningless game in an attempt to save some face by ending on a win? Not that it happened…

Anyways, lovely post Hayley, and here’s my obligatory Anti-Sutter piece: http://4thlineblog.com/2010/04/10/darryl/

by ArikJames on Apr 11, 2010 10:42 AM PDT reply actions  

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