Post-Break Post-Game - Welcome Back?
by maimster on Mar 3, 2010 9:52 PM PST
36 comments
I'm not sure what is more depressing - that this game is the first I get to write the post-game writeup, or that I started writing it at the end of the 2nd period. I went back and re-read the last post-game before the break, titled "Causes for Optimism". At the time, I was optimistic about the Flames chances coming out of the Olympics. Jarome Iginla did look like classic Iggy, Jay Bouwmeester did look like a full value shutdown defenceman who could and would take on all comers and still help drive offense. The new forward core was pushing the puck in the right direction.
So what happened?
If you were looking for answers after the jump, I don't know what to tell you. I can say that 'lack of finish' is a tired cliche that I use too much, but it fits this team. They are pushing the puck in the right direction (at least until after the 2nd Wild goal tonight, when they just stopped). But they don't generate great scoring chances, and it doesn't matter how many new forwards cycle through this team, that hasn't changed for years. Matt Stajan just signed for big bucks and long term - did he play tonight? Rene Bourque just signed for big bucks and long term - is he really a 3rd liner? (Ask Brent Sutter, I guess). Iggy just reinforced himself as a national hero - did he just complete his deal with the devil? A gold for a Jarmoe?
Yes, the D made a few bonehead plays tonight, and they all ended up in the net. Yes, JayBo was particularly shaky (he and Iggy were two of the four with negative Corsi). Yes, the Wild played a good 'road game' (never mind that they're a team that had all of 9 road wins coming in! ). But the Flames play a style with little room for error and depends on generating a ton of chances. Instead, we got a couple of errors, and no way to overcome those.
It is probably well past the time to do an honest assessment of coaching and playing style. Some of the zone breakouts tonight looked like they were in a pre-season game. I don't know that I know enough to judge coaching from a distance, or in a vacuum without seeing what the players are being taught. But, that's the next point of analysis and as Bob mentioned in the comments, it looks like we may have a longer summer than expected to do that analysis.
I guess the best summary of this game I can give is that it mirrored the trades made by Sutter today. Nothing stood out, nothing terrible, nothing great, just a whole bunch of nothing. Overall result is that you don't come away from it feeling good, for sure, but really, you just come away feeling empty.
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I added the scoring chances, maimster.
As for scoring over the years, I don’t know if I’d go that far. They were a good scoring team three years running. When they chose Joker and Bouwmeester over Cammalleri, I was fairly certain that they’d score less. This much less, though? Not really.
Joker and Bouwmeester over Cammalleri, Lombardi, and a 1st round pick. Even if he was only going to get another 45 point season done in Calgary, Lombo would’ve equalled what the Joker did alone. Cammy would have been gravy on top of that.
I have come to the conclusion that the Sutters are spirit breakers. The kind of heavy disciplinarian stuff that I’ve heard Brent loves might work in the minors when you’re working with a bunch of undisciplined kids, but I get the feeling that all he does in the NHL is crush the joy of playing hockey held within perfectly serviceable NHLers. In addition, Darryl looks to be of similar ilk. From here on out I am blaming both Sutters (primarily Darryl) for any and all of Iginla’s reduction in awesomeness in the past few years. The 04 cup run was too early in Daz’s career for him to have totally squeezed the will out of Iggy and Regehr, but by now his task is nearly complete, and he and his brother are now turning every player who wears the flaming C into a big ol’ emo.
by SmellOfVictory on Mar 3, 2010 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
Langkow’s spirit hasn’t been broken yet because he has a dour personality, Conroy’s hasn’t been broken because he’s unbreakable, and Kipper has no emotions to break.
by SmellOfVictory on Mar 3, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
I honestly don’t know what to make of this team. I am in-between disbelief (taking on too many seemingly stupid contracts) and numbness (wanting to be excited about new additions and new possibilities but on overload from all the new bodies). I am close to being at a point of not even wanting to watch and just tuning in when playoff begin to see what happened.
Glad I missed this one
Since I have already seen the same game from this team this year… almost every game outside of November actually looked like this game (especially from January onwards). Is it time to go back to being a fan of this team in the era of the mid 90’s to the early 00’s? It is sure beginning to feel that way (all the first round losses, eventually becoming a non factor for like 8 years or so… the cycle is so familiar).
Playing games like that is not how you clinch a playoff spot. The quitting after the second goal is something that happens when half the team is new. The majority of these guys don’t know each other and probably think they were thrown together just to get through the season. I mean they are professionals and they just don’t quit…I’m aware of that…but subconsciously its bound to have an effect on their drive to get out of stick situations. There’s a point where so much turnover and addition to the locker room has this effect. I’m sad. Absolutely great birthday gift from Daz, I appreciate it.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
I said it in the game thread, but the fans in Minnesota deserve something better than that team. The Wild organization is an affront to everything the game stands for. And it isn’t like their style of sucking the will to live out of every single person in the building has paid off for that organization either. It’s been a loser from day one.
I think rather than preventing a change, there should be a delay of game penalty for every third icing. Flames would have had 15 powerplays last night…
That said, the Wild deserved to win that game, and they deserved to win as easily as they did.
This team reminds me of the 91-92 Flames. No cohesion, not much desire, and the entire lineup, save Kipper and Giordano, are underachieving. The bright side, I guess, is that after missing the playoffs that year, the Flames rebounded to win the division two out of the following three years.
are you saying the management and administration of the Wild franchise is a loser? or is their style of play so bad for hockey that it makes them a loser in that sense?
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
All of the above, really. The Wild have made three playoff appearances and aren’t likely to make it this year either. Likewise, they have won more games than they lost only three times in their franchise history as well. Minnesota’s system simply does not work. When you get right down to it, their drafting has been every bit as bad as ours has been in the last few years despite having higher picks.
Minnesota fans are fantastic. They really do deserve a better organization than that.
yeah its unbelievable that they’ve been so passionate in their support and sold out all those games with such franchise ineptitude…
much like us in recent years by using the 04 run…the franchise keeps hanging their hats on their one trip to the west finals as their benchmark of success…
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
My level of surprise is low. I turned the game off after two periods, I honestly have better things to do than watch the flames struggle. It’s recorded, so I can see that last glorious Minnesota goal if I truly want to.
But just think, things will all get better when Staios joins the team on Friday against the Devils!
Yeah!
That third period was abominable but the first two were pretty good actually. It’s a gigantic pain to see a big fat zero on the scoresheet but the team, as a whole, did put some pucks on net from good areas.
I’m still really frustrated that Iginla is playing with a scrub like Stajan. For all the fellating this guy is getting for being a 40-assist centre with big time chemistry, good hands, scoring etc. etc., the fact remains that Langkow is the superior centre in the only way that matters – helping this fucking team win. Iggy wasn’t very good last night, he had one heck of a time penetrating the offensive zone, but I’m convinced his unit would have done that more often with Langkow carrying the puck in or providing support.
After watching last night’s game, I rescind my argument about Lanks staying with Higgins and Kotalik. I would rather have one useless line that plays minimal defence and one line that plays a 2 way game and can, you know, put the puck in the net, as opposed to one great defensive line that can’t score worth a shit and a awful defensive line that can’t score worth a shit.
I’m pretty sure a management team put together from commenters here would do a better job then the farce we currently have, save the assistant coaches.
Go Flames Go
Goals? Where we're going, we don't need goals.
by Justin Azevedo on Mar 4, 2010 9:52 AM PST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure a management team put together from commenters here would do a better job then the farce we currently have, save the assistant coaches.
I doubt it. I think coaches are, on the whole, pretty smart. GMs less so, but they do shit that we couldn’t dream of.
But, in this one aspect of the game – lining up who will play with who at even strength – Brent Sutter has talked himself into some seriously stupid shit.
That’s what I’d keep the Assistant’s, haha. I just can’t believe Brent is an intelligent hockey mind when he can screw up something as simple as line combinations. Add in the fact that a guy like Mayers draws in before Dawes, or that he put Iggy and the Sex Panther up against top level comp for almost 50 games, and pretty much any faith I had in him before the season is gone.
Go Flames Go
Goals? Where we're going, we don't need goals.
by Justin Azevedo on Mar 4, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
Well, let’s separate a couple of things here.
Does Brent Sutter know that Langkow is his best centre? Damn right he does! Langkow was the only centre under the Olli Joker-nen regime to get both significant PP and PK time, and by my eye he played the toughest minutes. Kent did a good job showing how Jokinen didn’t get the softest icetime here like he did in FLA but at the same time he always faced it with Iggy, who’s lost something but is still somewhat capable. Make no mistake, Langkow has played tough minutes this season.
What does Sutter think about the winger situation then? Well at even strength the two wingers who’ve gotten the roughest ride by my eye are Bourque and Iginla. Bourque’s also the only winger to get the PP/PK split like Langkow. I’m sure in his heart of hearts Sutter rates Bourque ahead of Iggy although he probably doesn’t want to admit it. But he treats both as his two best wingers, and I agree with that.
So Brent Sutter can identify his talent, and that’s no mean feat. Make no mistake, he’s got a keen eye there. The problem is the way he lines ‘em up doesn’t work, we keep losing the chances battle at the top end of our roster because we keep facing off against other team’s top players with our junk. And because the top end contains the best players, we’re also hemorrhaging more chances per zone time than we would if we had a crappy bottom end instead.
That’s one major complaint of mine. Another would be this uber-defensive regime where he doesn’t let the forwards make decisions regarding puck pursuit in the offensive zone, and another would be the PP. But the way he lines up the players is the biggest issue, by far.
That is all probably true. But it does not mean shit if he can’t get the lines that give us the best chance to win straight. So, yes, he may be a capable coach by those metrics, he fails at the one that gives us the most chance to win.
Go Flames Go
Goals? Where we're going, we don't need goals.
by Justin Azevedo on Mar 4, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
Just to clarify: He has the wrong lines together at ES. ES is where the majority of the game is decided. Ergo, he has the wrong lines for the majority of the game.
Go Flames Go
Goals? Where we're going, we don't need goals.
by Justin Azevedo on Mar 4, 2010 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
I’m not defending Sutter, just trying to refine exactly why I don’t like why he is doing.
Splitting up your best players works sometimes. In Chicago, Toews and Hossa have played on different EV lines at times. In Detroit, Zetterberg and Datsyuk sometimes centre different lines.
Of course, Toews, Hossa, Zetterberg and Datsyuk are elite EV players. The situation we have in Calgary is three players in Iginla, Langkow and Bourque who are impact players but aren’t by themselves capable of driving a single line’s results against the best. Sutter is playing them as if they are capable of this. Result is the Flames lose the chances battle more than they ought to.
Makes sense. Although it’s also fair to point out that the supporting casts in CHI and DET are significantly better then what the Flames have at this point. But I see what you are trying to say.
Go Flames Go
Goals? Where we're going, we don't need goals.
by Justin Azevedo on Mar 4, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
Personally…I think they have overthought so much shit this year from coaching to roster management that we are left with a plate of spaghetti. It’s sad but now everyone at the Saddledome is beffudled (sp?) out of their minds.
Though I’d like to add that there might be some deeper locker room issues that we don’t know about. Im talking like serious stuff that required shipping some problematic parts out and in turn getting rid of supporters to those parts (hence the overall…and no McBackup was shipped out cause he was McBackup). The whole Dion situation comes to mind. More than meets the eye happened there imo.
"Where do you go from here, Dion?" "I go to Toronto."
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
Part of that, I’m sure, is the abrasive attitude of the Sutter family. Some people don’t like it, some are impartial.
Go Flames Go
Goals? Where we're going, we don't need goals.
by Justin Azevedo on Mar 4, 2010 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
I’m not a superstitious person, but I’m beginning to wonder if the Flames blew a decades worth of “hockey karma” during their ’04 run.
I thought that the Flames outplayed the Wild for the first half of yesterday’s game, but had nothing to show for it but a 2-0 defecit. This seems to be the same problem they were running into before the Olympic break – getting decent chances, but not converting anything.
I try to be the eternal optimist whenever possible, but even I’m getting to the end of my rope. The only saving grace would be if the Flames happened to ride a late-season hot streak into the playoffs. It seems to happen with at least one team every year. I’m not holding my breath, though.
While the owners would obviously choose option #2, there’s precious little difference in my eyes now.
My thoughts exactly. I’m of the opinion that missing the playoffs may spark some incentive to provide some real change that brings real “tangibles” instead of the constant addition of “intangibles”.
Flames needed a make over, to be sure, just not sure we got it, and not sure it’s going to help us out any.
I want the team I cheer for to win as much as possible. And while I realize that winning will not cost Sutter his job, we also no longer have draft picks that are worth missing the playoffs. The only problem of wanting to bring in “tangibles” is that we have no space, roster or salary wise, to do so.
Go Flames Go
Goals? Where we're going, we don't need goals.
by Justin Azevedo on Mar 4, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
Losing in round 1 means we made the playoffs. Calgary against any other team, even the Hawks, I can’t see the bookies giving Calgary less than 40-60 odds to win 4 of 7.
I prefer making the playoffs, you can coinflip your way into later rounds at least.
But it’s like settling for mediocrity. “Oh, yay, we made the playoffs! Oh, no, we’re out in round one.”
Plus the surprise and suspense isn’t there.
HOWEVER, there is always a chance the hockey gods decide to favour the flames and they make it to the final round, similar to Edmonton after the lock out.
I only want Calgary to make the playoffs if they magically stumble into a Stanley Cup (hey, it could happen). Otherwise I think missing the playoffs might give the owners the incentive needed to shake things up at the top.
by SmellOfVictory on Mar 4, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
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