Calgary Flames Half Season Review
With 40 games in the bag, it's time to assess what we have on our hands here. Favorite? Underdog? Underachievers? Lovers? Fighters?
Some of our earlier intuitions have been confirmed through the first half while others have proven false. The club as it operated through the final portion of 2009 was at times wholly dominant and at others cannon fodder. Here, Robert Cleave and I will discuss the issues that have caught our eye and how we see them affecting the club's drive to make it past the first round in April. As always, feel free to share your own thoughts in the comments.
1.) Rene Bourque was probably the Flames best all around forward in the first half of the season. Do you agree? If so, who would you slot behind him as a first half MVP type (outside of Kipper, that is)?
Robert: Outside of Kiprusoff, probably Bouwmeester, simply because of the minutes he's had to log with Sarich on the shelf. One other thing that occasionally gets lost in the whole debate over a defenceman's value is their work on the PK. That's a place where a coach's choice can tell you what he really thinks of a player's defensive skill, and that's where Jay Bouwmeester is clearly ahead of Phaneuf in terms of performance. Brent Sutter's utilization of the two on the PK would suggest to me that he agrees with that analysis.
Kent: I'm going to go with Curtis Glencross, despite the lackluster counting stats. His underlying numbers (corsi, scoring chances) are stellar and his importance to the success of the third line (that is Conroy and Moss) has been revealed recently with their struggles in the wake of his promotion.
I would also like to throw in mentions for Daymond Langkow and Mark Giordano who have been consistently good since puck drop in October.
2.) Alternatively, who has been the biggest disappointment on the club?
Robert: You should have phrased this like the first question, as in -"outside of Jokinen, that is". In that spirit, I'd say David Moss. He doesn't look the same to me, although I think he's been a victim of not having Glencross at his side every night. I don't expect third-liners to do it alone. Iginla's also been slightly less in terms of possession than we'd all like, but I think the boss' insistence on pairing him with Jokinen was at the root of things. If the new lines hold and Joker gets off the pot as well, he can get out of the doghouse, too. I think the D have been pretty decent all around. People, myself included, are hard on Dion, and his contract is a clear over-pay, but "clear over-pay" doesn't equal "bad".
Kent: Aside from Jokinen, I've been fairly disappointed with Jarome Iginla. His run in October was mainly percentages and he's been bottom of the barrel by the metrics and by my eye far too many nights for a guy with his reputation and size of contract. Some of that is no doubt circusmstances, given he was playing against the big boys with Olli Jokinen many nights, but the fact that he often couldn't even battle up to respectable levels makes me wonder if his days of being a truly elite ES player are past.
Since I can't go with just one guy, I'd like to add in Robyn Regehr, who has also had more off nights in the first half than I'm used to. There's been some evenings where the action has looked a tad too fast for Robyn and he's ended up making some curiously bad decisions. That said, Reggie has gone through periods like this in the past and come out fine on the other end, so we'll probably just have to wait it out.
3.) The Flames possession and out-shooting numbers are well behind the numbers of last year's edition. Is the cause coaching or personnel?
Robert: How's that go? A little from column A, a little from column B? They've missed Mike Cammalleri's output, no question, and being one proper forward short in the top nine means one line always is underperforming. With the recent moves, the third line has been sub-standard. Forwards drive possession, IMO, so having one line in three struggling will hurt your team's numbers. Of course, I'd rather have the third line a bit off than continue seeing the first line drown, because the likely consequences are more dire if your stars can't get it done.
The coaching aspect to this is in two parts. First, Sutter's bull-headedness regarding the Joker-Iggy pairing did the Flames no favours. Olli Jokinen needs to not play straight P v P to have a chance at being productive, and Jarome Iginla needs players more suited to him to be at his best. I think the possession numbers have been hurt by that stubbornness, so I'm hopeful that the current arrangement continues to hold.
The second part of coaching is style. The Flames have spent a lot of time using a 1-4 set-up, even in the early part of games, and it drives me a bit nuts. It's very hard to score if the puck is always in your end, right? That approach might be a product of Sutter not quite believing his players can force the issue for a full game, but it still seems not quite right, at least to me.
Kent: I agree that both at fault. The loss of Cammalleri was a significant one. In many ways, he was as good or superior to Iginla last year and Jokinen is nowhere close to an adequate replacement. Also, losing Lombardi up the middle has probably had some sort of impact; although he's not a legit top 6 forward, he was capable of moving the puck in the right direction against the weaker sisters. He was also one of the team's better face-off men, which has been a weak point for them this year.
On the coaching front, you touched on the ill-fated Iginla and Jokinen tandem, so I'll go with the organization's emphasis (perhaps over-emphasis?) on defensive play and goals against. It was roundly noted after Keenan's firing that the team's primary weakness was defense and that would be the focus of the new coaching staff coming into the new season. As such, there's a chance that the bench boss has focused the game plan around that goal to the potential exclusion of generating offense.
4.) What do you see as the club's primary weakness? As such, who would you target at the trade deadline and who do you see as trade bait?
Robert: I'd suspect the careful readers amongst you might suspect I'd like to see one more forward for the top nine ;-) In all seriousness, I love Curtis Glencross' game, but I'd love it a pile more on the third line.
The "how" part is where it gets tricky. According to CapGeek, if the Flames don't call any more players up for an extended period, on March 3rd they'll have just over 6 million in full season cap space. I don't imagine Daz will try to run things as tightly as last year, so if the Flames don't move a significant roster player in a trade, you're talking about players making in the 2-4 million dollar range, and I'd think it'll be straight rentals that they want.
So, who? The usual suspects will crop up, I'd guess. Alex Tanguay, Ray Whitney, Alexei Ponikarovsky, that type of player. Colby Armstrong, Alexander Frolov and Tomas Plekanec fit in terms of salary, but I'd guess that their teams will try fairly hard to resign them, or want more than the Flames can offer. No draft picks in the first two rounds make it hard for Calgary to take a run at some of these players.
The only player on the roster that I could see Calgary moving is Cory Sarich. I have no idea what his perceived value is, but it may not be enough to get what the Flames want, and the two extra years on his contract aren't necessarily a point in his favour. Beyond that, I'd guess one of the Flames' young D down in Abby might be on the move. I don't know that the Flames can keep them all, and T.J. Brodie and Tim Erixon will both need places to play in the next couple of years.
And no, I don't see the Flames moving Dion Phaneuf or Olli Jokinen. The only chance that Phaneuf goes is after another playoff failure, and even then, he may not be moved. Jokinen has no value at the moment, and the Flames simply have to hope that things turn for him a bit. They're married to him until June 30th, I'd wager.
Kent: Couldn't have said it better myself. Another target may be Paul Kariya, although one wonders how much he has left in the tank.
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I don’t see them moving Keith Aulie (doesn’t Daryl love him?) so would that make Jon Negrin potentially their biggest asset. Negrin, Pelech, Pardy – rank em (in terms of trade value). No 1st rounder, can’t see Nemisz, Backlund or Irving being moved. No one on the roster that I’d move has much value. Deals could be hard to come by.
I would however like Armstrong or Whitney if possible.
Perhaps moving Dion this summer is the best way to solve the balance on this roster. Wonder what kind of return he brings…
The Flames love their defensive prospects, but I doubt any of them have much value outside of the org. Few are NHL ready (besides, maybe, Pelech) and none are going to step in and make an impact on a roster any time soon. At most, Negrin et al. could be a throw in in a potential deal, but they won’t be able to anchor one.
I’ve been watching Pelech via the Heat games on atdhe.net ……. there’s nothing like actually sitting in the arena – but so far he doesn’t do anything to stand out (unless you count bad penalties). Actually no one does down there, even prospect stud L. Irving had a rough patch there for a while. Backlund needs to hit the weights!
by Calgarian in SJ on Jan 5, 2010 1:03 AM PST up reply actions
had the jokinen roll at globefish, just so you know. it was aptly named cause it looked like it would be awesome but it was actually just kindof mediocre, even though it was made up of a few really tasty items.
I still disagree with the Iginla assessment but I know you look at lot closer at the numbers than I care to.
What about Phaneuf and Boyd (or Nystrom) for E.Staal and Pitkanen (or Corvo or Ward)? With Sarich coming back I think that either him or Dion becomes expendable for help up front. Thoughts?
Dion is not, and I repeat, NOT getting traded before July 1st.
Sarich and Boyd and Nystrom isn’t enough to pry away Stall, let alone him and another.
As good as Sarich can be, he does not render Dion expendable.
by Justin Azevedo on Jan 5, 2010 2:28 AM PST up reply actions
Actually I didn’t say that Sarich, Boyd and Nystom for “Stall” deal would be equal. Phaneuf (I would speculate) would have to be involved to include Staal.
I know that with Dion the D is very good to elite but with the emergence of Gio, need for a play-maker and no draft picks to work with what else can you do? I would still say the defense without Phaneuf would be pretty darn good (and in my make believe scenario we would get a decent one back to eat minutes). So also getting a D that is almost as good but is not overpaid (as Robert agrees Phaneuf is) seems like a good compromise.
Of course I know this is not going to happen but my question would you do it?
Another question: is there another free agent like Satan out there where you can get some play-making or scoring and doesn’t cost ya anything?
On David Moss...
..it’s possible a good chunk of his struggles has to do with his lousy percentages so far. His PDO is a team low 97.9 and his on-ice shooting percentage is 5.61 (!). His corsi has fallen well of his pace from last year, but it’s still marginally in the black.
Not really seeing too many moves that the Flames can make for the top six guy. Easiest way is Sarich for a draft pick then flip the draft pick (+ extra?) for a middling top six guy. I mean NYR got Nik Antropov last year for a 2nd rounder. Can’t imagine being able to grab anyone better then that given the lack of future assets the Flames have.
Well… unless Sutter decides to spend a month or so in Sweden trying to get Forsberg after the Olympics or something atypical like that.
Vinny Lecavalier
Alright, I know there’s been a ton of stats out there saying Vinny isn’t as good as most people perceive, and I know he has a crazy contract, BUT…
… would you move Phaneuf for Vinny straight up this offseason? I kind of think Tampa would jump at it, and it would serve a purpose in balancing out the roster. Surely Vinny could out perform what Jokinen has done, no? Then you let Olli walk , give Bourque his raise and look for a d-man to slide in the top 4 via free agency (I’d love Hamhuis).
^^
I missed the part about looking at dumping Sarich.
Essentially…
In: Lecavalier, Hamhuis
Out: Phaneuf, Jokinen, Sarich
Any available $ after that could be used on upgrading a forward.
I considered it before, but I’ve been convinced recently that Lecavalier just isn’t anywhere near worth his cap hit. Hamhuis would be a good off-season target if the Flames lose a defender though.
Simon Gagne is another guy to keep an eye on. He’s fragile, but his contract is relatively palatable and he’s a pretty good all around player when he’s healthy.
Not a bad though on Gagne. Mot sure what you’d need to give up (depends if he’s the guy Philli’s looking to dump salary-wise or not this off-season). He does have a history with Iggy at the Olympics I guess, but that seems like ages ago (well, I guess it was).
The thing with Vinny is, I think he’d be more suitable for Iginla than any center he’s ever played with (for the Flames). I could be wrong and he just isn’t a match like Jokinen.
Plus he’s 3 years younger than Iggy, and this season is giving the impression that perhaps Jarome has piqued and is now on a slow decline. Perhaps a change of scenery revitalizes Lecavalier, and maybe even more so, revitalizes Iginla.
I’d rather they give us Stamkos than Lecavalier. Not saying they would, since Stamkos kind of seems like their burgeoning franchise player, but it would be nice.
Or in another vein, if we could pry Plekanec from Montreal, that would be pretty good. The only other thing I can say is that the Jokinen trade really screwed our team. Probably the worst move by management since Savard was traded away.
by SmellOfVictory on Jan 5, 2010 9:55 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not going to get into trade speculations because if I do I will go crazy. But here are my humble thoughts on the questions:
2nd question: Biggest dissappointment including Joker is: Daymond Langkow. On pace for worst counting numbers performance since being a flame (by PPG) at 54 points in 82. Lanks should be a 70pt guy. Is horrific in the face-off circle this year @ 43%, and is rocking a 2.7 RelCorsi (lowest of the D-L-RBQ trio) If he was with Iggy (-4.1) for 41 games he could be down at Joker numbers (-1.8). Second – McElhinney. .894 ev sv%… enough said. He does have the second half to right the ship, and the Deadmonton game was a step. (I even thought twice about putting him down on this list after that game)
1st question: MVP or biggest overachiever? Kipper…oh, excluding the goalie. Kipper. Ok, seriously. Kipper. Sorry, three was a charm. It’s Giordano for overachiever, JBO for MVP (excluding Bourque and Kipper)
Oh…I forgot my pre-rebuttal for the “Captain responsibility” tag the Lanks gets.
GAON/60 with QualCOMP
Lanks – 2.5, 0.042
Iggy – 2.37, 0.088
Joker – 2.31, 0.072
Langkow has the worst zonestart ratio on the team (43.4% offensive zone), but is still in the black in terms of corsi. His GAON/60 rate is largely determined by the .901 on-ice SV%. Jokinen and Iginla are up at .933 and .925 respectively. That’s mostly a function of variance. As far as production goes, only Iginla and Bourque are more efficient at producing points at ES on the Flames currently.
One of the reasons his counting stats are down is the 2:29 in PP ice time he’s averaged per night thus far. That’s almost a minute and a half less than last year (3:51) and the year before (3:54). Also, when Daymond has been on the PP this season, it’s been on the second unit.
Craig Conroy, who makes one quarter the salary of Langkow at a million bucks has the exact same zone start percentage as Lanks and has a GAON/60 of 1.61! Granted, he sees easier competition – 0.055, but that is a massive difference to the tune of almost 1 full goal per 60 minutes of ice time, or 37 more goals against to date. Conroy is also much better in the face-off dot @ 50.7%.
Lanks has had cherry teammates with Bourque who’s corsi is off the charts @ 8.8 and an over-achieving Dawes who has a higher corsi and 20 pts. Add Bourque and Dawes together and they are paid less than half of Langkow.
The PDO won’t convince me on giving sympathy to Langkow as his shooting percentage is a toward the high side of unsustainable and basically every other Flame has a sv% from Kipper at or around .920%+. At that point, Langkow is the huge minority…or a problem, as opposed to the victim. Sure Boruque had a low on-ice sv% as well, but the others…Jaffray, Lundmark and Johnson aren’t defensive stars and they are all a good .010 sv% clear of Phaneuf @ .916%.
The SV% behind Craig Conroy is .932. That’s the primary reason his GAON/60 is so much lower than Langkow’s. Conroy’s zonestart is the same, but his quality of comp is way down the list and his corsi is only marginally better.
I never cited PDO…I cited on-ice SV% because that goes a long way to determining GAON/60. It’s been proven, over and over again, that individual players have next to no effect on he save percentage behind them. Dustin Boyd leads the team with a .950 on-ice SV%. Brian McGrattan – the worst skater on the club – is up at .938. Bourque had one of the highest on-ice SV% on the team last year. Now he has the lowest. This:
every other Flame has a sv% from Kipper at or around .920%+. At that point, Langkow is the huge minority…or a problem, as opposed to the victim.
Just isn’t true. That Langkow has one of the lowest on-ice SV% behind him is proof he’s been unlucky, not that he’s been bad.
PDO is a function of on-ice sv% and shooting % correct? I was only demonstarting that Langkow is shooting slightly high as well. Giving me little hope that without Bourque, he is going to put up better numbers in the second half.
“It’s been proven, over and over again, that individual players have next to no effect on he save percentage behind them.” – This is categorically false, unless you can prove to me otherwise, because it defeats ANY and ALL logic that there is such a thing as a defensive forward or a defensive liability as a forward – which is complete and utter quack-science.
There are plenty of forwards who are defensively a liability and that is going to have a direct relationship to sv%, which is demonstarted indirectly by your ‘chances analysis’ which has a direct correlation to shot quality.
Additionally, if sv% has any function of LUCK to it, then bad goalies who have an permanent on-ice sv% are just unlucky? I don’t think so.
If someone is on the ice over and over and over again and they are getting scored on at such a higher rate than others on the team, that player is likely a function of that situation.
The sv% behind Conroy of .932 is practically the save % behind the whole team, including McGratton, and less a few… and it’s close to the whole sv% of Kipper for the season, so what tells me it shouldn’t be expected to be that way?
I would look to his face-off numbers as a first indication of why his on-ice sv% is so low…especially when considering his zone start. That’s as much a function of inability as luck. Loses the draw, within seconds it’s a scoring chance against.
Langkow is 86th of 88 players listed for face-off winning percent at 43% That’s basically worst in the league. Only Matt Duschene and rookie and Stall are wose. He’s the Vesa Toskala of face-off men. The top guys are pushing 60%. Even Conroy is 47th on the list.
"It’s been proven, over and over again, that individual players have next to no effect on he save percentage behind them." – This is categorically false, unless you can prove to me otherwise, because it defeats ANY and ALL logic that there is such a thing as a defensive forward or a defensive liability as a forward – which is complete and utter quack-science.
Well, Im not sure how many times I’m going to have to make this point around here or to link to some convincing studies, but it’s not false – time and time again we see that individual players regress towards the mean when it comes to the percentages in the NHL. Which means it’s not stable and therefore an effect of randomness. That’s why we worry about volume stats like shots, corsi, outshooting – because frequency stats are sullied by a low noise to signal ratio. Think about it: the difference between Conroy and Langkow’s on-ice SV% is about 0.03. Now, that seems large in relative terms, but it’s actually a fairly tiny number.
If on-ice SV% was mostly influenced by ability, how do you explain Bourque going from the to the top of the list to the bottom in the space of one season? Or Boyd leaping from .905 to .950? McGrattan, one of the worst players on the team, comes in at .938.
Additionally, Conroy’s zone start being exactly the same percent and with worse teammates than Langkow has a 20% higher relative corsi, and corsi on than Langkow does.
Bourque and Dawes together have a much higher relative corsi than any of Conroys multiple best-partners this year (GlenX, Iggy, Moss etc.) and that doesn’t even take into account Conroy’s time doing 4th line duties. Daymond Langkow’s corsi stats no matter how you look at them are not where they should be for a 4.5million dollar player.
He is our worst face-off man
He is on career low points production with the Flames.
For some reason, the only time Kipper is getting lit-up (.901 sv %), in an otherwise Vezina-worthy year (.934 ev sv %), is when Langkow’s line is out.
He’s played the whole season to date with the most dominant forward on the team.
These statements are all true, and not flattering.
I think there’s some flawed thinking vis-a-vis his point totals on your part, Lawrence.
Lanks should be a 70pt guy.
He has one season in his career above 70 points, and one close (65). He played with a younger, better version of Iginla during both, and had Tanguay and Huselius for his left wingers during those two years, with a lot more PP time. Unless you’re telling me that Bourque and Dawes are better than those guys were in 06/07 and 07/08, that seems off.
Further, how many centers that were clearly working on a team’s second line, as Langkow was until this past week, scored 70 points last season?
PIT:
Malkin 113, Crosby 103
BOS:
Savard 88, Krejci 73
S.J.
Thornton 86, Marleau 71
That’s it. Jeff Carter is shown as a C on the NHL stats, but he spent almost all of the season on Mike Richards’ wing. The league overall scoring numbers look down this year as well, so your expectations are based on a misguided premise, IMO. If Daymond Langkow scores 55-60 points and out-scores his opposition, he’s fulfilled his obligation. Seriously, check the salary levels of centers that have averaged 70 points, or even 60 points a season since the lock-out. 4.5 million is nothing special, Lawrence, unless you count that cheater contract of Marc Savard’s. He’s not underpaid or anything, but his performance isn’t incredibly out of line.
Sure, I’m not going to argue that to death, I just picked 70pts out of my head. He’s still not on pace for 60. He’s played with RBQ and Dawes who have a combined 54 points. The best two on the ‘first-line’ have a total of 60pts and that’s taking the best two players (Joker and Iginla). So, you tell me? As we all said many times before…Langkow WAS the first line centre, AND he had the benefit of playing with the best teammates against lesser competition.
You wanna put Lanks with Iggy and GlenX against the toughs and you think it’s better for him than with Bourque and Dawes against the lessers….be my guest.
Langkow should be shooting the lights out, not be on pace for worst year as a Flame.
I got $20 saying Joker has a better second half playing with Bourque and Dawes, than Langkow and than his first half, if he stays with them than with Iggy and Sjo-Nys-Glen….
Whoops….that should read Glen X (as the combination of the best two wingers.) excluding the duds who played there…Sjostrom, Nystrom, etc.
The point was that the so called second line, was actually the first line in terms of offensive load. I’m not getting into the minutes because I am sure they are less, but no matter how you look at it, Langkow hasn’t been working with losers on the wings. His pace of 54 pts is low.
PP time plays more of a factor than you seem willing to give it credit for, Lawrence, and Langkow’s /60 rate is quite good, and right at his historical levels. If he gets the sort of PP time Iginla’s previous center did, I’d suspect the point totals would change accordingly.
Here are the Flames’ main PP players, sorted by GFON/60. For this year, I set the filter at 30 games played, 2 minutes of PP time. For 08/09 and 07/08 I set it at 50 games played, 2 min. PP time, in order to capture Giordano from last year.
To wrap this up from my end, I’d suspect that switching centers will ultimately help everyone concerned. Langkow and Iginla have proven their comfort level with each other’s games, even in the face of tinkering coaches. Jokinen and Iginla looked like two people on a bad blind date for about 65 games in a row, and in a rare spirit of generosity on my part, I’ll blame nothing but good intentions on the parts of Sutter, Jokinen and Iginla. They meant well, they tried something that should have worked in theory, and the fact that it didn’t should be chalked up to players not quite fitting together. I’ll stick by what I said earlier in the year. Iginla and Jokinen were too deferential to each other on-ice, and spent their time suppressing their personal strengths in a well-meaning but failed attempt to create chemistry. Nothing, and I mean nothing, would shock me less than if both of them started piling up better shot and chance totals in the current arrangement, and Daymond Langkow’s strength as a facilitator for Iginla will show if the coach lets it ride.
by Robert Cleave on Jan 5, 2010 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
I just hope this splitting of Iggy and Jokinen lasts longer than the last attempt at it (if I recall correctly, they were split for 3-4 games back in late October/early November).
They were, but that wasn’t done with any seriousness of purpose, at least to my eye. Putting Iginla with Conroy and Joker with the ‘Stroms? That’s not a move meant for the long-term, IMO.
by Robert Cleave on Jan 5, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions

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