Folks, fell free to psot reactions you see from around the web in this section. Should be a ton of good material coming out on it soon.

Well I picked up Hagman in a fantasy league I’m in and I watched Phaneuf get dropped in another. That’s not commentary per se but the moves are certainly a reaction.

Kent,

Good analysis. I don’t see a lot of downside risk for Sutter here either. Even if Phaneuf becomes the best defenseman in the league, he wasn’t better than Regehr and Bouwmeester over the last couple of years. With White, I don’t feel like the Flames will notice that they’re missing their #3 defenseman – but he may be more expensive than you think…

So do we trade Sarich to get a cheap-reliable backup Goalie and maybe a pick?

I can tell you you won’t be disappointed in White. The kid has a lot of character and a tonne of offensive upside.

Hagman will score some pretty goals if he can find some chemistry.

I’m thinking Sutter wants a deep run in the playoffs. Is this enough to get you there? I can’t say, but I’ll be rooting for you.

Now I think it’s safe to say Langkow gets the ’’A’’ now just a little minor issue apart of this deal.

Phaneuf’s debut will be Tuesday against the Devils I wonder if he’ll be on the top paring with Kaberle.

Stajan and White seem to be the most excited juding by speech. Hags is a fin there always quite and Mayers knows he’s destined for Waivers but knowing Sutts he’ll keep him up and throw him on a line with Prust and Gratts.

I don’t watch the Flames unless they’re playing the Avalanche obviously, and I will watch acouple Edmonton – Calgary games. great rivarly. But when I check out this blog I saw some negativity coming towards Dion. I always liked him, but you guys would know better by watching him day in and day out. What didn’t you like about Dion? Do you think he was worth moving? Thanks guys, just trying to get a better prospective.

Couldn’t disagree more with this off-base piece of “journalism” (?) … from a former Calgary Herald Flames beat writer back in the day. Come on Eric, stop drinking Brian’s Kool-Aid. Obviously he doesn’t live out West anymore…

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/score-deal-heavily-in-burkes-favour/article1450924/

Poll added to the post guys.

Why was Aulie included in the deal? And how do you feel about his inclusion?

How would you guys rank this trade since the deadline I know it’s really too early to find a winner in the deal but just out of the names getting swapped.

List of trades that come to mind.
Aug 05’ Chris Pronger to EDM for Brewer, Woywitka & Lynch STL
Aug 05’ Dany Heatley to OTT for Hossa & de Vries ATL
Nov 05’ Joe Thornton to SJ for Sturm, Stuart and Primeau BOS
Jun 06’ Luongo to VAN for Bertuzzi, Allen & Auld to FLA
Jul 06’ Pronger to ANA for Lupul & Smid EDM
Aug 09’ Heatley to SJ for Cheechoo & Michalek OTT

I think this deal could be bigger then most of those.

PS – When Moss, Dawes and Conroy return to the line-up, the Flames will have a lot of bodies kicking around up front. I would therefore suggest that Sutter isn’t finished tweaking the roster.

I hope you’re right, if only for a legitimate NHL back-up. And, it would be nice to get a early-round pick or two, just so we can take part in the guessing game that is the draft.

this is a huge “wow”

Red Mile Blog take on the trade.

Well, everyone has been arguing for Phaneuf to be traded and now it happened. I think the Flames LOST in this deal, and stand to LOSE more, but that remains to be seen.
1.We didn’t get a draft pick
2. We got two UFA’s in return (who could turn out to be rentals
3. We got one RFA in return, in White.
4. We got a marginally overpaid Hagman in return

This deal could turn out to be Phaneuf, Sjostrom and a prospect for White, Hagman and two rentals.

The Leafs got the best player in the deal, bar none.

I can only hope that the ‘dressing room’ problems are a serious component and this brings the group closer together.

IF, Stajan clicks and returns, it could be better, but we have one of the worst Powerplays in the league and we just lost, if not the most important element, at least equally important to all the others.

Might be streamed on the Flames website.

Always interesting how people characterize a deal as a WIN or a LOSS without putting anything in context. It’s not like both teams have the exact same roster, and so you’re comparing player for player. Both GMs are looking to take assets and turn them into other assets that fit better.

I think there’s no question the Flames are better today than yesterday. I think Phaneuf is a very good player, maybe has potential for greatness (I don’t believe that, but acknowledge the possibility). But he was an expensive player on a blueline that has his skills in abundance elsewhere. Key to the powerplay? Really, he has as much to do with the crappy powerplay as anyone on the team, maybe more so. Plays died on his stick (or more precisely, on the glass over the net after leaving his stick). He was an asset in a spot where the Flames had multiple assets, and he was expendable, period.

And, he was one of the few Flames worth a large return. In the NHL, there are only a few “stars”. There are a ton of players that are good, can fit a role, have upside, and can help a team win. Stajan, Hagman and White are all those types of players. None of them are as good as Phaneuf alone (arguably, again, if Phaneuf doesn’t develop anymore) but together they are.

I don’t follow the Leafs so I don’t know if this helps them this year, or the future, or if they couldn’t afford to lose so much depth. So I don’t know if this is a WIN for them. But it is a WIN for the Flames!

But after letting this all set in, reading some comments around the web, listening to the Fan 960, and reading Kent’s post above…I am feeling pretty good. Let’s face it, I want to see the Flames salvage the season and I didn’t want them to throw the towel in. This is a move that might help that and it happened before the Olympic break so the players can get used to Butter’s system, etc.

As for the Leafs, they are honestly worse off and I doubt Ron Wilson is the guy to better develop Dion. That’s just my two cents on their end.

http://www.fan960.com/listen/

is anyone gonna ask darryl what happens to the superfluous 3 or 4 players ?

nice work with the smoke and mirrors by daz to not answer if the pricetag on dion was the reason for the trade.

Why hold a press conference …. if you are going to cut off the questions in mid-sentence, talk down to the reporters like they are idiots, and give general non-answers. Waste of time.

Elliote Friedman’s take.

kelly hrudey exposed dion to the nation a few weeks ago and to be honest, i don’t know if i thought we could get a stajan/hagman OR white for him after that. we get all three ? PLUS the additional cap space ??!?! i’m sold. i’ll miss freddan and i think aulie’s gonna be good but this is a win for the flames right now, i gotta say.

Late to the party, which is even better since my 2cents have gained interest :)

Forget all the distracting stuff. Locker-room presence or what not. All a bunch of baloney bullshit if you ask me, the principle question is which group of players helps us win more?

Sjostrom is a non-factor, guy barely played.

Phaneuf was learning tough minute defence and imo he was getting better at it. The “maturation of Gio” was a bit overblown, he’s been playing tougher minutes recently but all that early-season progress he showed was a product of being sheltered on the ice.

Of course I believe Phaneuf was overpaid for his PP contributions.

Plus the forward imbalance has sadly been making itself known in the “not helping us win department” for a while (although Sutter’s insistence in not playing his best together didn’t help at all). So a rebalancing of the lineup was in order.

Is the return enough? Who the hell knows. I couldn’t pick Stajan or Hagman out of a police lineup but they are probably real NHL forwards. Couldn’t give two shits about White, every time I hear the words “underrated offensive defenseman” uttered in the same breath I have my internal translator change it to “sheltered #6 who probably doesn’t help you win”. It works very often.

I’m kind of disappointed that Sutter couldn’t garner a better return for Phaneuf, while wholly acknowledging that Phaneuf probably does not have the abilities as a hockey player to buy the Flames a true difference maker.

I am really happy no picks came back from Toronto, aside from very high #1’s picks are generally worth not very much. Trust me on that.

The expiring contract stuff is also a non-factor. Who cares if Stajan and White aren’t under contract next season? All the better I say, gives us the money to buy a difference maker next season. Contract term isn’t an asset unless it’s attached to a player who helps you win. If Stajan is that guy, resign him, otherwise let him walk.

I would have preferred to steal a guy from Dallas like Morrow. I don’t know about their young players like Neal, generally I feel such players have a good shot at being a flash in the pan. They wouldn’t trade Richards but that’s the kind of conversation I would have liked Darryl Sutter to have engaged in.

But, we wanted a rebalancing of the roster and we got it. Flames are probably a better team, how much better is a question I’ll try to answer when I have more time.

Now that I’ve had some time to think about this trade, I still think that trading Phaneuf was a mistake. Saying that, though, we got a great return, especially if this leads to White, Stajan and Bork being resigned, which will be a hell of a lot easier to do now that if Joker is not signed, that means that 12 million dollars worth of cap space can be put towards those guys. Get them locked up long term at a cheap price.

I honestly think had Keenan not been coach the past two years, Phaneuf would be a lot better player then he is right now. He was allowed to run around and pick up bad habits that would not have been picked up had a Sutter or even Playfair been coaching. This year, all of those things reared their ugly heads.

All in all, I enjoyed Phaneuf’s time in Calgary and wish him success.

One last thing: Sutter better get a fucking backup goalie at the deadline.

Some of these EMAILS ARE CRINGING AND HURTING MY BRAIN.

What happens to Dion’s home? Do the Flames buy it and rent it to Matt Stajan or Ian White?

My last words on the matter, cause I seem to be in the minority.

But players like Dion Phaneuf don’t come along every day, or every year, or even often in a decade. The guy is 24 and has his whole career to develop, most NHL defenseman aren’t even effective until 24.. This is like Hartford bailing on Pronger, and Hartford got Shanahan. And Pronger went on to become one of the best defensmen in the game.

I curse the guy as much as anyone else, but we didn’t treat him as an asset in the trade. Hagman and messy extras for Phaneuf is a crime. If Stajan clicks short term, signs for a deal and stays AND White turns out to be another Gio, then maybe but that’s a number of big IFs. Especially considering the IF that Phaneuf could be one of the best in the game in two years.

I just don’t see how this makes the team much better today….other than clogging up the forwards with more depth forwards, and STILL needing #1 line players AND I don’t see how it makes us better in the future, when most people say…well IF it’s a bust, we’ve got cash to rebuild.

So what was Dion worth? Nothing but a bunch of IF’s and some increased flexibility.

Well, that’s a shame.

It could be 20 years before the Calgary Flames draft another defenseman as good as Dion Phanuef, and even then, I may not happen.

This reaction is another example of how failed or over expectations destroy perspective. I just now hope that Pelech/Erixson can actually make it to the NHL someday, but they won’t be Dion Phaneuf.

Not sure if hating both Calgary and Toronto makes me “neutral”, but one result of this trade is I hate Calgary less today than yesterday. Ugly used to make my blood boil with some of the stupid shit that he pulled, and I never got the impression that he had the hockey smarts to even begin to keep up with that admittedly-awesome skill set. With the addition of Bouwmeester and the emergence of Giordano he was looking more like a top 4 defender rather than the top-pairing guy you expect for those kind of $$$. Now it’s Toronto that has a surfeit of big salary defenders (5 guys through at least 2011 at at least $3.5 MM — ouch). So the balance of the payroll is an important consideration.

Don’t know anything about Aulie, when I first heard the deal this morning I thought they said “Olli”. You wish.

As for the incomers, you got three of Toronto’s better players. (Yes, I know it’s Toronto, but still)
- Matti Hagman’s kid is a solid player, and he’s locked up at a middling rate for a proven veteran in his UFA years. More finisher than playmaker though.
- I’ve always liked Matt Stajan, he seems to have a broad skill set and his scoring has improved to > 0.7 P/G the last two years. Durable, experienced, very affordable though his price will go up this summer.
- Ian White is a bit of a dick judging from “Future Greats and Heartbreaks” and I tried to hate the guy after reading that book, but every time I see the Leafs he does something to impress me. He’s played 23 minutes a game and been a plus player the last two years, no mean feat in T.O. Has a plus shot, not the bomb that Dion has but maybe more accurate. Scored 10 goals last year and has 9 to date so it’s a weapon.
- Jamal Mayers is a straight salary dump to balance the pay scales. Experienced vet, might prove useful on limited occasion in a Wayne Primeau sort of way.

I think your team is a lot more balanced. One way to think of it is Bouwmeester replacing Phaneuf, and then consider what player assets you gave up for Jay-Bo (none) vs. what you got for Dion (quite a bit), and it’s not bad at all.

i’m sorry, that jermaine franklin query is way too funny. i will never get over it.

You know what, I’m done complaining…..(not likely)

SO what have we got now, other than a dogs breakfast.

(Not ideal line-ups, mostly sorted by cash, position)

Hagman – Joker – Iginla
Dawes – Lanks – RBQ
Nystrom – Stajan – Moss
Mayars – Prust – Boyd
Lundmark- Conroy – McG

We have 6 centers now. Boyd’s development is fucked again, I guess he plays wing? Conroy is benched/utility for the season? Left Wing is still one player too thin. I dunno….looks like more of the same mess to me.

I’ve been analyzing it in my head. What really hurts is trading away Dion’s potential and the star power he has. But atm, trading him for the return they got is not bad. Getting a chance to reset the Dion contract’s and getting some offensive help is a nice move considering who the Flames have on defense. I’m really eager to know though:

a) had Dion become an issue in the locker room?
b) did he have problems with Butter or Iggy?
c) did he demand a trade?

If any of those questions are answered in the positive, then you have to imagine you get another bonus. If any of those questions were true you then you had a problem that could only get fixed if Dion were moved.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=4875044
Burnside @ESPN sums up my thoughts pretty well.

Wysh’s article says things similar to how I see them:

“Stajan’s been to the playoffs once [this is stupid]. Hagman, Mayers, White … their efforts on some bad teams should be commended, but what are we really looking at here? Spare parts on a good team, expendable roster players on a bad one; and, in three cases, expiring contracts that have been flipped for a former all-star on the blue line.”

“Losers

Darryl Sutter: For the moment, at least. Ryan Kennedy explains the stakes:

Calgary gave up the best player in this deal, not to mention a prospect in Aulie who was very strong at the world juniors last year, but change had to come and in trading Phaneuf, Sutter has thrown down the gauntlet to this team: It’s time to perform up to expectations, because no one is untouchable.

Whether the rest of the team wakes out of its slumber now is up to them.

It’s a loss for Sutter because he presided over a roster that reached this level of ineffectiveness; one that needed the trade of Dion Phaneuf to the Maple Leafs to reinvigorate its playoff chances. That’s an enormous fall from grace; but with some salary cleared and without Phaneuf’s contract through 2014, Sutter now has a second chance to build a champion."

“Phaneuf was exchanged for (a) cap space and (b) second-line players (on any other team). This isn’t meant to disparage White or Hagman, who are both solid. But the Ducks got more for Pronger, and he’s not exactly 24 anymore.

Apparently Larry Brooks said the Rangers offered Kotalik, Rozival and Brashear for Phaneuf.

Two thoughts:
1. It’s Brooks, so that is probably made up.
2. The the computer would reject that trade in NHL 10.

Jay Onrait continues to show why he is the best thing to happen to TSN in a long while.

But this:

Some are even comparing the Phaneuf trade to the monumental Gilmour to Toronto 10-player blockbuster orchestrated by Cliff Fletcher back in January of 1992. Calm down people. For the Flames there is clearly more to this deal. They are going after Kovalchuk and that’s that.

has stirred up the nonsense on the message boards about getting Kovalchuk again. Not sure how we would do that, since we just dealt the centerpiece of that deal, and I am quite certain that Atlanta wouldn’t take a bunch of leftovers when other teams are certain to offer top prospects.

…Thank god.

They were already 50% off at the FanAttic when I was at the ’Dome for the Hitmen game this afternoon.

That was fast.