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The ever growing myth of "Big Body Presence"


I don't know when this cliche was birthed (probably Pierre McGuire dreamed it up in the bath one day and began hammering it home on air every chance he got), but it's time it was euthanized. Having a "big body" is neither necessary nor sufficient to be good in the NHL. Players aren't effective merely by dint of being large. They are obviously ways being bigger can be potentially advantageous to certain players in certain situations, but being big doesn't replace (nor equal) being good.

Star-divide

The supposed benefits of big body presence have grown beyond what I would deem reasonably intuitive. We've gone from "difficult to push off the puck" and "possess a long reach" to "he has an undeniable net presence!", "he'll make room for his linemates" and my favorite variant, featured in a fanshot below, "defensemen will be forced to focus on him more!" - as if a bigger guys' girth has a sort of irresistible gravitational pull. Hockey is obviously a tough sport; an impact sport. It makes sense that size would have some value. But "BBP" has become a magical catchall asset that overcomes or excuses other, rather pertinent failings. Olli Jokinen can't win a face-off, is not very good in his own zone, has mediocre vision and puck distribution skills, yet he's a legit #1 center and Iginla is going to have a career season beside him because, well...big body presence.

The guy pictured above is Evgeny Artyukhin. He's a 26 year old Russian winger. And, at 6'5" and 255 pounds, he's huge. What's more, his scouting reports claim that he has good mobility for a big man and soft hands. The funny thing is, he stinks. His career high in goals is 6. His career high in points is 17. He played some of the weakest competition on the Lightning last year (-0.07), had a negative corsi rate (-10.1) and scored at a 4th liners pace (1.16 ESP).

I haven't watched enough of Artyukin to comment personally, but from what I can glean from Lightning fans, the big guy is bad because he's dumb as a worn-out boot - can't think the game fast enough to be worthwhile beyond the edge of the roster. His size is, at best, a tease - it doesn't grant him automatic net presence resulting in more goals on the power play and it doesn't make opposition defenders stick to him like a magnet. Size is perhaps best described as a tool that can be used or not - one (even when employed) that cannot overcome other glaring faults. Nor is it required to be an effective hockey player (or center, for that matter). See: Daymond Langkow, Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Sidney Crosby...the list goes on.

After being sold this particular marketing slogan last year after Todd Bertuzzi was signed (and his subsequent stinking despite BBP!) I am hereby immune from the seductive promises of endless open ice for linemates, constantly screened goalies and forever over-matched defenseman.

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Three words for you: Martin St. Louis. I’m taller than he is when he’s in full gear and on skates. The guy was not even drafted, and yet no one will dispute that he’s one of the best players on the ice in the NHL.

Cassie
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning Blog. Calling shotgun in the clown car.

by Cassie McClellan on Sep 9, 2009 6:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Indeed. I avoided St.Louis because he was almost too obvious a counter-point, but he’s an unreal player, no doubt.

by Kent Wilson on Sep 9, 2009 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The supposed benefits of big body presence have grown beyond what I would deem reasonably intuitive. We’ve gone from “difficult to push off the puck” and “possess a long reach” to “he has an undeniable net presence!”, “he’ll make room for his linemates” and my favorite variant, featured in a fanshot below, “defensemen will be forced to focus on him more!” – as if a bigger guys’ girth has a sort of irresistible gravitational pull.

As a Red Wings fan, I’ve heard this many, many times, my team having been the smallest in the league for the past decade or so. The cliche that overtook Wings message boards is “creating space.” The annoying cry has long been; “We need [big, talentless player X] to create space for Datsyuk and Zetterberg!”

In the Detroit-Calgary series from 2004, I remember, Dave Lewis, for two periods of one game, put McCarty, already clearly washed-up, in Hull’s spot on the Datsyuk and Zetterberg line. He played poorly (he always played poorly at that point) and, needless to say, failed to make extra room for his linemates. Nonetheless, when Lewis put Hull back in his spot the next game, the message board loonies exclaimed; “Why?! Couldn’t he see that McCarty was creating space!”

I think the idea was tied to conceptions of what “wins in the playoffs.” “Sure,” they would say, “that fancy stickhandling bullshit will work in the regular season, but wait till playoff time. Without [big, talentless players] to create space for them, those little guys won’t do anything.”

“Playoff Hockey” might be the source of more nonsense than anything in this game. Since 15/16 teams lose, anybody can find plenty of examples to support whatever asinine pet theory they have as to what “wins in the playoffs.” Fortunately for my sanity, the Wings’ recent string of deep runs has silenced the space fetishists. With the signing of Bertuzzi, though, it seems to have reentered the lexicon.

by BrianW on Sep 9, 2009 7:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hmm…I can’t see anything in Resolute’s comment above. Am I the only one?

by Kent Wilson on Sep 9, 2009 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

nope, me too

by shep_ on Sep 9, 2009 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s an animated gif. Hotlinking might be disabled from the site I got it from, though I have it cached so see it on my screen.

http://www.sportsargumentwiki.com/images/a/a3/B_pierre2.gif

Though the joke kinda fails if you gotta click it…

Ultimately, I agree with your general point. Big Body Presence is definitely one of those McGuirisms, along with players that are MONSTERS! As you mention, Bertuzzi is a pretty good example of how silly this concept is. Or hell, Jarome Iginla himself. When he wants to be, he can be the hardest guy in hockey to beat off the puck. Many times last year… not so much. “Big Body Presence” is an attitude, not an attribute.

by Resolute on Sep 9, 2009 7:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I call it “big body utility.” It’s lovely to be large and all, but if you’re not using your size to your advantage, you’re just taking up extra space. That doesn’t mean bashing guys’ heads in, just doing the things advertised in the “big body presence” package: screening goalies, gaining leverage and winning puck battles, maintaining possession, whatever.

I think the Maguirism for it is “playing big,” but I’m not sure. I dunno, I think it all falls under the banner of “good hockey” at the end of the day.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there)

by Doogie2K on Sep 11, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Been reading M&G all summer after being pointed here by my brother. Just wanted to say thanks to Kent and all the other contributors for the top quality posts like this. Hard to get good hockey news (namely Flames news) here in Iowa, especially now that the Baby Flames are back north.

Some of the math may be a bit over my head, but I’m its great to find such a well informed passionate crew to keep me posted!

by Andrew S. on Sep 9, 2009 10:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey thanks Andrew. Glad to have you aboard.

This should be a fun season given the new guys contributing here and the way the team is shaping up. As for the math stuff, we plan to make that as transparent and accessible as possible going forward, so hopefully that will help.

by Kent Wilson on Sep 10, 2009 5:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who’s your brother?

:P

-Colin

by Colin S on Sep 10, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Frightening...

Pierre McGuire dreamed it up in the bath one day and began hammering it

I didn’t make it through that sentence before needing brain bleach.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Sep 10, 2009 6:58 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Net Presence!

Big bodies are fantastic – if they have skill. Rick Tocchet was a BBNP. Colton Orr is not.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Sep 10, 2009 6:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think we will all get a good look on the merits of size this season when the Canadiens unleash their undersized top line of Gomez, Cammy and Gionta to the league next season. Will the lack of a player who is of decent size affect the obvious skill of these three players?
Or will they be manhandled by Chara on Boston or Toronto’s big blueline?

by Dustin Timberlake on Sep 10, 2009 10:11 AM PDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Size doesn't replace skill, but it enhances it.

Physical dominance is a factor, and does make up for lack of skill in various ways. Would Chara be a dominant defender with a booming shot if he were 6’1"? Would Nik Antropov be a 60 point scorer at 5’10"/175? Obviously the answer is not likely. The creation of space only works if the player is a threat to score if he’s dominating the weaker defender/defending center, and thus draws the Charas and Prongers away from the other guys on the line. McCarty? Not likely. Antropov, more likely. Sundin (in his prime), very likely.

by mc42 on Sep 10, 2009 1:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

As I side, size has a value in the NHL. It just isn’t the amazing thing the purveyors of big body presence make it out to be.

by Kent Wilson on Sep 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bertuzzi

Its a combination of size and attitude. Bertuzzi had it for about 2/3 of a season in 2002-2003 and GM’s have been thinking they are the ones who could recapture that ever since.

by NuckFan on Sep 11, 2009 8:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

4 elements

Skill – with the puck.
Size – bigger is better and willing to use it !
Speed – can be attention getting
Heart or determination – willing to work hard.

A marginal NHLer can make it with one of these elements, an average one with 2, an excellent one with 3 and a dominant one with 4. Bertuzzi made the transition from excellent to average since he displays only 2 of these qualities on a semi consistent basis – Size and skill.

Another example of an average player is Matthew Lombardi – top 5% in speed and probably below average in 3 other categories. Martin St Louis on the other hand has a giant heart, good speed and sick skills, and despite being small, not afraid to go to tough spots -hence an excellent player displaying top 10% of 3 of 4 of the categories.

by PrairieStew on Sep 11, 2009 10:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I would include “smarts” in that list. That covers stuff like understanding the game, anticipation, discipline, etc. That’s what makes a guy like Datsyuk not only a great offensive player, but a Hart and Selke candidate as well. Smarts was also something else Bertuzzi lacked.

by Kent Wilson on Sep 12, 2009 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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