Pre-season post-game: Flames 5 - Isles 4: Well, that was interesting...
by Robert Cleave on Sep 17, 2009 11:06 PM PDT
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PrintI noted in my pre-game that the potential for an intriguing night at the 'Dome was out there. As pre-season games go, it certainly was full of entertainment value, with fights, goals, a Dion Phaneuf center ice special, and a shoot-out that had an ending that would be called hokey if it were scripted.
There's a lot to chew on tonight, so let's go to the good, bad, ugly, and a word or two about an old dude from my part of the world. Caveats noted about pre-season, quality of competition, etc, etc etc.
1) Olli Jokinen, Nigel Dawes, Mark Giordano, and David Moss were very good tonight, with Jokinen being very solid on the PP. He used his size to brush a couple of guys off, and his second goal was a bullet into the roof. That's what the Flames need from the guy, and a lot more nights than not.
Nigel Dawes was much better tonight than in his initial effort Tuesday, looking like a handy guy to have around, and he certainly meshed with Daymond Langkow, aka Mr. Instant Chemistry (as per Matt Fenwick). One game, small sample size, but at least there were some glimpses of what the Flames saw in the guy when they claimed him on waivers.
Mark Giordano is a good NHL defenceman, and he showed why tonight. He can move his feet, and can get the puck going north. I don't think he'll ever be in a team's first pair, but he's a damn proper bottom-half-of-the-rotation guy for one of the better defence corps in the league. I'll repeat what I said the other day: If Anton Stralman or anyone else beats him out, it'll be based on some very good play.
David Moss? He's David Moss, people. He's very good more nights than not, gets things going in the right direction, and he's hard on the puck. He's a favorite of this blog, and a night like tonight is an example of why that's so. The Flames, and most other teams, could use another couple of him.
Honourable mention goes to David Shantz. The young guy looked nice and square in his net, and very comfortable in the shoot-out. He appears to be a goalie that can play at the AHL level, at any rate. Matt Keetley might have a real fight on his hands to keep a job in Abbotsford. Keith Aulie didn't do anything egregious either, which made for a good night in his pro debut.
2) The Flames still have some work to do in their own end, although they shut down the Islanders in the third and OT, out-shooting them 24-5 in that stretch. Jay Bouwmeester slightly smirched a pretty fair night with a bad pass on the first goal, and Cory Sarich had a slow start, although he got better as the night went, like most of his fellow D. Pre-season is for smoothing out the rough edges of team play, and a night where the Flames beat an AHL level team in a shoot-out will give the coaches plenty of ammunition. No panic or anything. It just needs some work, because the shit habits they developed last year won't do, IMO.
3) Miikka Kiprusoff. Uh...well, he wasn't any good, and I'm glad it wasn't a real game. 3 goals on 14 shots isn't going to stop any of the nay-sayers, but as one of those people, I'll give him an opening night pass and hope like hell he gets better. The generosity of spirit on my part won't last much past October 1st, but he deserves to have the pre-season to clean things up.
Dion Phaneuf set off a hey-rube with an hellacious open ice hit on Kyle Okposo.
(via titjoe019)
Jesus. Okposo left the ice on a stretcher, but according to the radio post-game, he's OK, and ready to travel with the Islanders to Saskatoon. Hits like that will always make the perpetrator look like they've jumped into it, so I'll let others do the Zapruder thing if they wish, but I wasn't crazy about it. I know it's a hard man's game and all, but I never wish a potential concussion on anyone. Brain injuries suck. If Okposo's none the worse for wear, good.
Finally, there's no way to wrap up this evening's events without a comment on Theoren Fleury. As I said this morning, I hope that people will get through the initial excitement about his return and look in an honest manner at his performance. With that spirit in mind, I wasn't shocked about his play during the actual game. He's still trying to figure out how much energy he can expend, and I'm pretty sure that first period was a wake-up call, because he struggled, and he wasn't exactly facing the '78 Canadiens tonight. He was better in the second, finding some holes and getting a few scoring chances along the way. I don't think he's going to be released in the morning or anything along that line, but he's got some work to do if he plans on being a full-time NHL player again. There are worse guys out there, though. If he's willing to slug it out in Abbotsford for a while, he might have a long-shot chance, and that's more than I would have given him a month ago. I'm not going to piss too hard on his parade, though. The fact that he made it this far is worthy of compliment, irrespective of what the future holds. If he has any satisfaction at all after tonight, I'm not going to begrudge him one bit.
That shoot-out goal was pretty nifty, though. Dude still has high-end NHL hands in tight.
The Flames play again Saturday in Saskatoon vs. the Islanders. It's turning into a much more eventful pre-season than anyone might have suspected, isn't it?
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the best part of that clip is not the debateably clean hit on okposo, but instead what happens between 0:07 and 0:09 (which is gio seeing morency coming off the bench headhunting, and closing twenty-some-odd feet of ice to get between him and dion).
this game was effin’ fun. it was like a playoff atmosphere in an exhibition tilt…. so wrong and yet so right !!!
:)
ps: my thoughts on “paper” over at hitthepost. :)
by walkinvisible on Sep 17, 2009 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Who cares if the hit was “clean”? There is no call for an open ice hit like that on a player with his head down in the preseason. Unacceptable. And isn’t it about time that Phaneuf stood up for himself?
I think the hit was unnecessary as well.
I don’t know where this claim that Phaneuf doesn’t “stand up for himself” comes from though. He fought some dude directly after the hit and got a 5 minute major. He was 4th on the team in fighting majors (6) last season. He can be a jerk, a pest and annoying as hell, but he fights quite a bit.
He received no such major, actually. No one did, presumably so that the refs wouldn’t have to throw Langkow out for being third man in. ;)
Seriously, you don’t do that shit in the preseason.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there)
Disagree entirely. You don;t tell players to half ass it at any time – pre season or otherwise. Part of Phaneuf’s game is to be a big physical presence, and what he did last night is what he has to do to be most effective. The hit was made much worse by two factors:
1. Okposo was an idiot. You don’t come across the ice with your head down. Period. All he did was give Phaneuf a giant green light.
2. Dawes (?) bumped Okposo, knocking the kid a little off stride. Since this happened immediately before the hit, Okposo was in an even worse position than he otherwise would have been.
As an aside, I have no bloody idea why players don’t keep their chinstraps on tight.
It really sucks that Okposo was hurt, and nobody ever wants to see a player taken off on a stretcher, but this is a part of hockey. Sometimes players get hit hard, and sometimes they get hurt. It’s part of the risk.
The only thing wrong with that entire play was the idiot who jumped off the bench to try and attack Phaneuf from behind. Even so, Dion had turned in time and was squaring up to fight when Giordano came in. In the end, Phaneuf did take on a challenger, wrestled him to the ice, and that should have been the end of it.
The continued attempts to attack Phaneuf was nothing more than a pathetic lack of sportsmanship by the ISLANDERS. Phaneuf hit the kid hard, he took on someone, move on. There is no requirement that a player should have to answer repeatedly for one hit.
Agree completely with what you wrote. Who cares if it is preseason, they’re big boys playing NHL hockey and every second they’re on the ice they need to be thinking that way.
There’s a bit of etiquette here, whereby you don’t go headhunting during the preseason, when guys are still getting their game legs back. Come on.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Nah Doogie, you play full tilt at all times. NHL players don’t know how to take their game down a notch; it’s in their genes. Look at any NHL All Star game and tell me that those guys know when it’s OK to drop a kill shot and when it’s not? Based on the highly physical nature of All Star games, and the frequent giant hits such games produce, I think it’s pretty clear that NHL players only have one speed.
A man must have a code.
You don’t come across the ice with your head down.
Instead you cough up the puck for a three-man rush because you just got bumped and need to retain control of the puck? Sure, okay, that makes tons of sense. Or Phaneuf could not leave his position and elbow the guy in the head. Whatever.
As for that slap and tickle afterwards…were there any punches thrown? It didn’t look like any kind of fight to me. Nor the referee, as we’ve already established. And that guy (55) did come on a legal change.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
And that guy (55) did come on a legal change.
I’d suspect Morrency might not be punished because of the uncertainty, but it’s the Colin Campbell Wheel of Justice™, so who knows.
Phaneuf gets nothing, as per Elliotte Friedman’s Twitter feed.
by Robert Cleave on Sep 18, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Couple points here:
1. There was no elbow. His arms were planted at his side.
2. The coaches may not have liked him leaving his position, but for you to try and use that as part of your arguement of how it’s a dirty hit makes no sense at all.
3. Instead you cough up the puck for a three-man rush because you just got bumped and need to retain control of the puck? Well, yeah, that’s sort of the point of hitting. “Crap, I might get my head knocked off if I don’t keep my eyes open, oh well I lost the puck but at least I’m still alive”. See my comment to Kent. It’s a deterrant, and a damn effective one.
4. As for that slap and tickle afterwards…were there any punches thrown? It didn’t look like any kind of fight to me. And this means Phaneuf didn’t answer the bell? Because the fight wasn’t awesome enough for you? Seriously dude.
i could be TOTALLY wrong here but is it not possible that dion was actually RETURNING to position….?
by walkinvisible on Sep 18, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, apparently, Phaneuf had no interest in answering the bell on this night, at least after the initial melee.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there)
You don’t think Phaneuf feels like he has something to prove after that debacle last season? Dude is going to be 100% pedal to the metal from day 1 this year, and expecting him to throttle back for the preseason is unrealistic. It’s too bad the guy got hurt, but the entire purpose of physical play in hockey is to make the other guy just that tiny bit scared so he rushes a play or mishandlesa puck. I’d say hits like that are pretty damn effective when it comes to that.
i would further add that this kind of hitting was expected of him under sutter with the rebels, and perhaps brent not-so-subtly suggested that he return to the scott-stevens-style of play that made him a top-ten draft pick.
by walkinvisible on Sep 18, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I was under the impression that part of Phaneuf’s problem last year was that he took himself out of position looking for huge hits. This hit definitely took him out of position and was unnecessary, but that’s between him and his coach. I just don’t accept that he had to make that hit because he had something to prove after last year. Everyone knows he can hit, maybe he should try proving he can play some D.
A man must have a code.
Agreed that there’s no need for an established NHLer to dish out hits like this in the preseason. I could understand if it was someone trying to make a team, but not someone whose place in the NHL is sealed.
by Cory Lavalette on Sep 18, 2009 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions
The hit was clean, you can see that the impact is obviously what caused Phaneuf to leave his feet. That said, I do agree that it was pretty unnecessary to hit the guy like that in a preseason game. And I mean, hell, its the NYI for crying out loud. I can see if it was against Edmonton or Vancouver where there’s some rivalry, but why bother against the NYI? Not that that makes any real difference, but it would have maybe made a bit more sense in the latter case.
It's called hockey, not ice-dancing
You may not have noticed, but it’s a man’s game ice-cubes.
If you don’t like it, take up watching Golf.
by velociraptor on Sep 18, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow. I knew the Islanders fans would be mad about that hit, but not this mad.
Reminds me of the Sarich hit on Marleau from the post-season a couple of years ago. Flames fans thought “what a devastating hit”, Sharks fans saw a big, dirty elbow or charging penalty.
Jeeeesus. That picture of Okposo over at Lighthouse is brutal.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Sep 18, 2009 5:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Where to start? First, I’m pissed that I apparently can’t watch the stream of the game living in Vancouver. That’s ridiculous. I can watch cycling from around the world, but not Hockey 1200km’s away. Lame.
The hit – who cares. This is always the same debate. Big hit. Home team says its clean, away team says it deserves 12 games. It was a hit, and it’s hockey, pre-season or not. You don’t wanna get hit, play darts, the fans should ‘toughen up princess.’ Obviously, hoping the best for Okposo, but he’s going to get hit playing hockey.
Theo – Great story, great to see (on youtube after) I wouldn’t jump on him too much for his first game. Dawes looked destine for the minors after one and a solid player after two. He didn’t look out of place in the shootout.
The rest, well, it was said best that they deserve the pre-season to get their wits about them, but somehow, I still wish I would be convinced early on that we are getting our monies worth for the top end stars on the team. Please for the love of anything not another brutal start for Iggy, Kipper and the big “d” names.
Lastly, Who wants to put money on the fact Dion won’t be playing next game against the Isles? Shantz and Irving?
D for 3 and now goal for 21 years, of course I'm a goaltender apologist.
There’s already Islander fans playing the role of Canuck fans circa 2004 who want someone to go out and deliberately injure Phaneuf, so I’d be quite happy if Sutter disappointed them in Saskatoon.
Iggy had a decent game I thought. Not dominant, but he showed much better puck control than he did for large parts of last season. The D was fine last night too. Of our big names, Kipper is the only one that concerned me from last night.
Probably McHardToSpell and Spence as they haven’t suited up yet. Although I’d prefer Kipper instead of Spence since I want whatever was infecting Kipper last night played out of his system before opening night.
Just want to give everyone a heads up: if in the future you need a link to watch the game, check out the following websites:
www.justin.tv
www.myp2p.eu
www.atdhe.net (by far the best bet)
Living in BC the last few years helped me acquire the ability to hunt down streams! Usually they even offer pay per view broadcast streams. The only time I’ve been SOL was when games such as Calgary-Tampa (that 8-6 loss) are only shown on obscure American networks. Every game on sportsnet, tsn, cbc, and PPV are on atdhe for the most part.
by Dustin Timberlake on Sep 18, 2009 12:22 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I hate Phaneuf’s guts, but that was a lethal and deadly hit that I can appreciate. Once again, don’t get all disturbed because Okposo was taken off on a stretcher. That’s precautionary. I read somewhere that he called his pops in between periods and told him he was fine.
I’ll bet even Okposo will agree that he should have kept his head up.
One of the videos I saw showed Okposo on his hands and knees before he was put back on the ice so they could get him on the stretcher. I agree it was precautionary. My problem with the hit isn’t that Okposo was taken off on a stretcher; it’s that it was totally unnecessarily violent in a pre-season game and Phaneuf was by no means fighting for a roster spot. It was a kill shot directed at a completely vulnerable player already being defended by TWO teammates. You don’t destroy a guy that is already engaged with your teammate, and you definitely don’t try to kill a guy in a meaningless game. I personally think Phaneuf led with the elbow, but even if he didn’t the intent was totally unacceptable. If it’s game 1 of the regular season I’d look at it a little differently, but it’s still a dick move. I’m sure Okposo would agree that you keep you should keep your head up, but having his head down doesn’t give Phaneuf carte blanche to try to end the guy’s career.
A man must have a code.
i wonder if we’d even be having this discussion if nigel dawes hadn’t given him a little bump about a half second before dion hits him. stumbles and split seconds sometimes make outcomes far different.
by walkinvisible on Sep 18, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s silly.
By your reasoning the hit (Even if legal, which I believe it was) is unacceptable because…
A: Phaneuf was by no means fighting for a roster spot, and
B: It was a pre-season game.
to which I would reply…
A: If it’s unacceptable for a regular roster player why should be acceptable for a tweener or prospect? and,
B: Even though It’s in pre-season it’s still a competative game, people paid good money to watch that game in which open ice hitting is not against the rules.
If you want to argue that the NHL should just eliminate the pre-season match-ups and allow that time to be used for intra-squad scrimmages where no one is going to use heavy contact then fine (I’d disagree, but that’s my opinion) until then I’d rather players play to the best of their ability, and if that includes heavy contact then so be it.
the theory about veterans not needing to fight for a roster spot might get thrown to the wind if the flames have the balls to send kipper to abbotsford for the first month while he gets his legs…. and with 8 or 9 very capable defensemen, i would have to say that dion may very well think he’s fighting for his spot (which he could be if he plays like he did last year)…
by walkinvisible on Sep 18, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d say he was playing like he did last year. He regularly took himself out of position trying to make a hit, and that’s why his D suffered. If he had done what 99% of the D in the league would have done there and played his side of the ice none of this ever happens.
A man must have a code.
I think it’s more acceptable for a marginal player to play balls to the wall because he has to impress the coach. Phaneuf wasn’t trying to do that, he was trying to get himself on youtube.
People pay a hell of a lot more money to see All Star games, but nobody hits like that in those games. NHL players, especially ones that have risen to Phaneuf’s level, know when something is at stake and when something isn’t. They know that there is a risk of injury when they go all out hitting, and they know when it’s not worth that risk.
Players that are already on the team are using pre-season to get a feel for the puck and their teammates, not to impress the coaches. If you think that Phaneuf had to make that hit in order to be ready for the regular season, then I guess you could justify the hit, but I’d disagree. I think Phaneuf could have played his side of the ice and let the other two CGY players defend Okposo and he would have been equally prepared for the regular season. It was unnecessarily violent in a meaningless game and I don’t think there is any way Phaneuf wasn’t aware of that.
A man must have a code.
Personally, I think it is disingenuous to say that Phaneuf only made the hit to get on YouTube. And while Phaneuf isn’t fighting for a spot on the roster, he is fighting for placement within the roster. If he wants to be a big minute guy on a team with Bouwmeester and Regehr, he has to show the coaching staff that he can put aside last year and return to his 07-08 form. Part of this form involved his ability to impact the game via his hitting ability.
It really sucks that Okposo was hurt the way he was. But the truth is, that hit changed the game. That hit helped create the win, and that is something the coaching staff will take notice of. Phaneuf has thrown tons of open ice hits where his opponent has gotten right back up. Unfortunately, Okposo didn’t. That is poor fortune for the kid, but it does happen, and everyone is glad he is alright.
As I said at Lighthouse, Swap the jerseys and replay the sequence. What is your reaction then?
Phaneuf wasn’t trying to do that, he was trying to get himself on youtube.
I kind of have to agree with you on this Resolute, I don’t think he is
SHOOOOOOOT IT!!!! Anon
by burpchelischili on Sep 19, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Indeed. What do you think of the Kessel contract? Seems like a pile of dough for a cancer-surviving kid with a bum wing, but Brian Burke never makes mistakes, so I guess it has to be good, right?
I mean except for giving Bert a 4 million a year deal…
by Robert Cleave on Sep 18, 2009 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t like it, myself. Lots to give up on top oft he big dollar figure. Kessel is probably a quality player (although there’s rumors of a bad attitude) but his numbers are probably inflated by whatever crazy ES mojo was working in Boston last year.
Yeah, It seems like the move a team makes when it’s going for it. The Leafs will in tough, and he can’t play for a couple of months.
BTW, we should probably set up a posting schedule for the weekend. Email me when you get a chance.
by Robert Cleave on Sep 18, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Good point. Even if the Bruins regress, they probably have the more “supportive” roster. It’ll be interesting to see how all these charges of a bad attitude play out as well.
by Kent Wilson on Sep 19, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
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