Darryl's next target: Patrick Marleau
by Kent Wilson on Aug 19, 2009 12:09 PM PDT
60 comments
Darryl Sutter has proven he's not shy about pulling the trigger on blockbuster trades. He's also a guy that "likes what he likes" when it comes to NHL players: Western Canadian guys, WHL players, former Sutter players and former first round draft picks (with a few Swedes thrown in for flavor).
It's also a poorly kept secret that Sutter likes (former) Sharks Captain Patrick Marleau, who embodies all the Sutter fetishes. A lot. And with the news that Marleau's been stripped of his Captaincy in San Jose, one wonders if he's on his last legs with the organization.
Of course, the primary reason Wilson may be looking to deal Marleau is his contract: at 6.3M/year, he is the second highest paid forward on the club behind Joe Thornton. The Sharks were said to be heavily shopping Marleau after his terrible season under the other Wilson, but with his pricetage and nominal counting stats at the time there was no takers. Now that a year of skating on Thornton's wing has punched up his output, there's probably more of a market for Marleau's services.
What's more, the Sharks have a greater need to deal him now more than ever. They are currently one of the most cap restricted teams in the league, featuring 10 NHL forwards, 2 RFA's that still needing a new contract and less than zero cap space to work with. Moving Marleau for a couple of cheaper pieces makes a lot of those problems go away.
With their collection of cheaper wingers and defenders, the Flames could probably cobble together a package for Marleau, although a player with some dollars associated with him would have to go the other way if the trade were to be made this summer, since the Flames aren't exactly flush with cap space themselves. That said, would acquiring Marleau be worth it? He can play both center and wing, has some nice tools including blazing speed and a good shot and his contract, though pricey, only extends till the end of this season. His advanced stats from last season are solid (although it helps to skate with Joe Thornton at ES) and I would say he's a superior player to our current "#2 center" Olli Jokinen. He's scored 30+ goals and 70+ points in 3 of his last 4 seasons and is 30 years old in September.
I have no idea if Sutter is actually considering Marleau as a trade target, but from what I know about Darryl and the signs I'm getting out of San Jose, it wouldn't surprise me if he's made a call or two.
0 recs |
60 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Marleau and Iginla get along
I think that all cap space issues aside, Marleau would be a great teammate for Iginla, and would fit in well with the Calgary playing style. Marleau and Iginla have played together numerous times in international competition, and they always seem to form a line at the All Star game (with Thornton on the other wing). Marleau is 10x the player that Jokinen is because he has a much better ability to see the ice.
Marleau Yes Heatley No
I think discussing acquiring Marleau is a lot more worth our time than discussing them acquiring Heatley. I love the idea of the Flames acquiring PM.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
I doubt they’d want Jokinen coming back the other way.
They have Pavelski as their 2nd line center now, so they’d be looking for wing depth.
It’d likely cost Bourque, Sarich and a 1st to have him come over. And that would have us bumping closer and closer….
Marleau is a star player for San Jose
And acquiring would take alot of pieces. As far as I know, the Sharks are asking for a young top six forward, a 1st round pick, and either a prospect or another high pick. That’s alot. Now, those are just rumors, but I’m thinking the Sharks are going to ask for more, rather than less. They don’t have to trade Marleau. At all. He’s worth more to the team in teal. The Shaks also can’t take back a whole lotta salary, so Jokinien doesn’t really work on any level for us (cap hit, age, position).
I don’t know how you guys would feel about this, but alot of people on our site are high on Regehr. Regehr, a first, and a pretty decent prospect would be something I would at least think about.
That might be an instance of us overvaluing our players, or vice versa. But Marleau will most likely approach 90 points again this year, and it would take a little more in a trade to Calgary just because it’s in conference.
Fear the Fin: Where... IMA TAKING UR BLOGZ FRUM U!!
It depends on where we’d play him.
We have 1-2 with Langkow & Jokinen – so realistically one of those 2 would have to move. Somewhere. Sometime.
That being said, if we could acquire Marleau this year, Jokinen would expire at the end of the year and basically have Marleau’s salary paid for.
Regehr won’t move. I think Phaneuf would be moved before him.
Regehr
Agreed – Regehr is not going anywhere. In fact at his salary of $4m – straight across for Marleau’s $6.3 – the Sharks would be the ones sweetening the pot with picks.
Reggie...oh, Reggie...
I really shouldn’t take other fans interest in Reggie as a shot across the bow, because as I’ve said before, how would they know how valuable he is to the Flames. But “Regehr, a first, and a pretty decent prospect is something would at least think about”!!! Makes me cry…I wouldn’t trade Reggie for Marleau straight up…and I’m sure if I read more comments below, I’ll find others already saying the same thing!
a three way deal
What about a 3 way swap with Ottawa ? Heatley in San Jose is probably attractive to Wilson; with big Joe dishing and Dany finishing. Can a 3 way deal be done that sees Marleau coming to Calgary? Sharks would need to dump more salary – perhaps they’d throw in Cheechoo to the Sens as well. if Calgary only had to give up Jokinen and perhaps Boyd, Sharks would get Heatley and some cap relief, Calgary gets Marleau and Sens get 3 forwards for Dany boy.
I’d rather deal Jokinen to the Sens for Heatley – rather than Marleau.
If we could do a Sarich & Jokinen for Marleau & Change (Lukowich?) I could be convinced.
If the Sharks are wanting rebuilding pieces, they can screw their hat.
Regehr, a first, and a pretty decent prospect would be something I would at least think about.
The Flames wouldn’t deal Regehr for Marleau straight up, let alone Regehr +. As for approaching 90 points – he scored 71 last year. He’s only approached 90 points once in his career and that was thanks to oodles and oodles of PP time in the “post-lock-out obstruction crack-down” explosion.
I like Marleau, but a “90 point player” he ain’t, especially without Thornton by his side. In fact, I consider his contract onerous and it’s an even bet – at best – that he covers his cap hit. Which is why, I’m sure, the Sharks would consider dealing him. Cap issues or not, there’s no talk of moving Thornton. For good reason.
While he may not have scored 90 (or even 80) last year.
I think he’ll be between 80-90 this year. He battled through injuries at the end of last season, and only scored 5 points in March. It’s also a contract year, and without the added pressure of the C, I think he’ll really blossom. As for the JT argument, yes, Patty might have benefited from playing with Joe this year. But he scored 86 points the season that Joe was traded here, and didn’t see much time on that line. So he’s capable of putting up numbers.
Maybe asking for Regehr is a little much, but behind Thornton, Patty is the Sharks best player. He may be overpaid, and he may or may not be the best leader. But he’s one of the best two way players in the game (very, very solid PK’er), and plays a huge role in our offense. It would take a whole lot to get him, that’s what I’m trying to say.
Fear the Fin: Where... IMA TAKING UR BLOGZ FRUM U!!
Quality player and quality character.
He’d be outstanding as a Flame.
He hasn’t ‘asked’ for a trade, so it’s not like we can low-ball his value.
Realistically, for a 1st line center in his contract year it would take what Phoenix paid for Jokinen + a little more.
Jokinen for Ballard, Boynton & 2nd rounder
for us, that’d look like
Marleau for Giordano, Sarich & 2nd rounder – and that’s valuing Giordano pretty highly. It’d probably take one of our top 6 forwards, Sarich, a defensive prospect and a pick.
See, I wouldn’t do that deal. Marleau is worth more to the Sharks than Giordano and Sarich.
And I think it’s a different situation with Phoenix, because the Sharks don’t need to get rid of Marleau like Florida did with Jokinen.
Fear the Fin: Where... IMA TAKING UR BLOGZ FRUM U!!
I can’t see us moving parts for him.
I wouldn’t do the deal if I was SJS either – but it’s a different story if he signs an extension.
If I were Sutter (wow, my prostate feels swollen), I’d just wait until Jokinen’s contract expires and try to get Marleau in UFA season. That way he doesn’t cost the plusses – just the salary.
He did see tons of time on the PP with Thornton, though. As in unprecedented amounts of time – 456 minutes or 5+ minutes/game. That year he scored 44 of 86 points with the man advantage. This is no coincidence and it’s probably never going to be repeated.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Marleau, he’s a quality player – but his current cap hit lowers his market value. Most clubs are at or near their budget ceilings. There are decent players still unemployed and available for nothing in the free agent pool. I think the Sharks first plan is to move Cheechoo and/or Ehrhoff before Marleau, but in the end they may be forced to deal him for a less than palatable return just because his dollars are so tough for other clubs to swallow.
you’re partially correct.
Yes, Cheechoo is most likely to be moved. Luko or Murray will probably go – as salary dumps – before Ehrhoff unless, like Marleau, Ehrhoff gets a solid return.
by IsThisTheYear? on Aug 19, 2009 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Odds are Marleau gets 5 mil-ish – with team facing a speculated cap crunch – on this Summer’s UFA market.
I think Flames fans would happily pencil him in Jokinen’s hole come July 2010.
"It's a great day for hockey" - BBJ
by jealous broadcaster on Aug 19, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
If we’re witnessing anything this off-season, its that high priced players with questionable returns are not coveted. I agree with Kent, that Marleau likely has Sutter slobbering in his boots, but less so than Bouwmeester did. I think if this does happen, it won’t until (at the earliest) the deadline, when leverage would have to be playing in favor of the Flames. Other than that, he is probably already lined up as Jokinen’s replacement barring some amazing season/contract for Joker at next years UFA flea market. If we traded Regher for Marleau, I for one would be seriously pissed/surprised and don’t see it happening. I don’t think other teams realize Reghers value at all. Marleau is just another overpaid lesser-star, like Jokinen and now Cammy. As well, I put Marleau in the career underachievers tier personally – #2 draft pick has averaged 25g and 55Pts in 11 seasons (crude calc.) for 6.3mill??? No thanks.
D for 3 and now goal for 21 years, of course I'm a goaltender apologist.
Oh I know how much Regher is worth. So solid. But I’m probably not as close to him as you are, and therefore, see Marleau as a more important asset to my team than RR is to yours.
However, I think Marleau is severely undervalued as well. So maybe that’s why we’re so far apart here.
Fear the Fin: Where... IMA TAKING UR BLOGZ FRUM U!!
Well, actually FtF, I do also think you have a good idea of what Regher is worth, because you’re here talking about him, but most others I have spoken with see him in a poorer light.
Marleau, I agree is good, but there were a lot of years of wondering if he would even get to 30 goals and a PPG or (70pt) pace. I still only see two seasons where he has 30+ and ppg. and one was by the skin of his teeth. His numbers over the past 4 years really, are only a marginal improvement on Daymond Lankow and Langkow was dishing to Iggy vs receiving from Thorton.
D for 3 and now goal for 21 years, of course I'm a goaltender apologist.
Assets are valuable as per how well they cover their cap hit, in this new NHL. From that perspective, Regehr is a far more valuable player than Marleau. Again, he’s a nice little player and I’d rather have him than Jokinen, but Regehr is the straw that stirs the drink. You simply can’t replace what he does for the price he’s signed at.
Flames seem to need offense, though?
I don’t know the Flames roster well but it does seem like your team is a bit too much tilted at D at the expense of the fwds. Marleau would be great LW for the Flames. Plus, he’s somewhat of a hometown boy – plus a Sutter favorite – so chances of re-signing I’d suspect are decent.
Is there no deal you guys would entertain for a Marleau+ for Regher? If not, so be it.
I doubt Sutter parts with anything for Marleau this season, but come the Draft next year, why not!
Much like J-Bouw, DS could move a prospect or pick for an exclusive window of negotiation with the speedster.
I’d imagine Phaneuf’s contract could be shipped to make room.
It must be August, huh! All this daydreaming!
"It's a great day for hockey" - BBJ
by jealous broadcaster on Aug 19, 2009 1:40 PM PDT reply actions
Very good point(s). Sutter may just wait till next summer, especially since Jokinen’s contract will be ending.
hhaha I didn’t read this before I posted.
DS may not want to compete for a high-salaried UFA if the cap will shrink by a couple million, but that’d also impede him moving for Marleau at any point.
If Jokinen strings together a quality season (a quality full season) we may not want Marleau as badly.
Jokinen isn’t that far removed from his 90 point peak. I bet someone would draft him 4th overall in a fantasy draft….know anyone that’d do that?
Sharks in tough
Daydreaming maybe – but the Sharks need to make a deal. They have 5 rosters spots open and only $899 K left – they need to move someone soon. Even sending Cheechoo to the minors only frees up enough for just above league minimum contracts for the backup goalie and 5 – count ’em 5 forward positions !!
So I like youtubing the conversation pieces and it’s funny, that Marleau’s list of video achievements is kiboshed by the huge Sarich hit. More ammo to include Sarich in the trade, maybe they wouldn’t be so fond of one another.
D for 3 and now goal for 21 years, of course I'm a goaltender apologist.
I wonder why McLellan would announce they ’don’t have a captain’ instead of just announcing a new captain when they have one selected?
Is this a subtle (read non-subtle) way of announcing that he is on the market?
San Jose isn’t a market that demands hockey news in August.
you’d be surprised! Sharks fans, like me, are hankering for something/anything. Seriously, though, the Bay Area is no match for Calgary or any Canadian city.
Yeah, i find it odd they made the removal of the C so public. This is an odd off season for the Sharks.
by IsThisTheYear? on Aug 19, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve also found that Sharks fans don’t give themselves enough credit!
I think that’s why Wilson still has a job – it’s like Riccardi in Toronto with baseball. He isn’t question because fans don’t feel confident enough with their knowledge to challenge an American expert!
If you are clamouring for hockey news in August, you are heads above most hockey fans!
What’s Cheechoo’s salary? I still like Cheechoo – can we get him cheap? As for Marleau – Langkow for Marleau? I don’t think Sarich is going anywhere, and I hope he doesn’t… but when you read the comments of both Sutter’s regarding our defence, Sarich’s name is never mentioned. Just Robyn, JBow and Phaneuf. Phanuef is going nowhere, people. Not this season, and I don’t think anywhere anytime soon. Brent will get the most out of him. Sarich was our best player – forget just on defence – he, Moss and Nystrom were the best Flames in the playoffs. And Sarich played with a broken leg. He’s a “giver”. Which makes him a Flame. As for Jokinen, we read all this stuff about him not being a team player. But I think he is. He threw his body around in the playoffs – a few times unwisely, meaning penalties – but he WANTS to be here. That counts for a lot under the Sutter regime. Bourque is also going nowhere. People., we really don’t need much… to go all the way. But if e make a move, Giordano, Pardy and Sarich, and maybe Langkow, may be the bait. (Tanguay is still unsigned, by the way. Heatley is a cancer. What about Cheechoo?!?!?)
$3M? Agreed – that’s a lot. But at 6.3M Marleau is too expensive, as well. Tanguay’s cheaper. The players are familiar with him. He left because of Keenan. Tanguay, anyone?? ( I still like Cheechoo, though. I think he needs new scenery and he’ll get back to some resemblance of what/whom he was…. He seems like a decent guy, Cheechoo. How can anyone duplicate 56 goals these days? The Sutter’s may be able to resurrect his career. But for 3M – I agree – pass)
sharks fan here – what would you trade for Cheech? we’re not looking for much – maybe free season tickets :)
by IsThisTheYear? on Aug 19, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Cheechoo has been hindered with injury over the last 2 seasons, moreso than a spontaneous vanishing of talent.
Under the new cap there seems to be a vanishing of mid-priced players. It’s all 7-9M for Franchise talent, or 1-2 million for the rest (especially forwards).
I think the Sharks would be better off ramping up his numbers with some PP time and quality minutes then dealing him at the deadline.
Maybe. I personally think Cheechoo is a limited hockey player. He has a nice shot and decent hands, but can’t really do anything else. That 56 goal season was a severe outlier and he probably needs to play with a guy like Thornton to be anywhere near that effective again.
You’re right though, mid-tier salaries seem to be vanishing…and part of me thinks that might be the way to go (assuming you pick the right players to give the big bucks to, of course).
by Kent Wilson on Aug 19, 2009 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions
here’s my two cents:
1¢: i’m pretty sure that darryl sutter’s favorite current player is robyn regehr, and i’m not just talking the flames. i think he’d be hard pressed to swap regehr for ovechkin (and i don’t think i’m exaggerating), so i wouldn’t imagine reggie going to the sharks in exchange for patrick effin’ marleau….
2¢: daz has been pretty smart about his salary hierarchy and i remember him once saying that nobody would make more than the captain (at 7mil). every player he’s signed slots in under that in a comprehensive way (aside from regehr, who signed well below market value, presumeably in exchange for a no-trade clause): jaybouw at 6.6, dion at 6.5, kipps at 5.8, olii at 5, langks at 4.5 and on down the line…. i suppose patty would fit in here, but i just don’t see him picking up another big contract with the above on the books (read: sarich).
He may wait for Jokinen’s salary to disappear before adding another big dollar deal.
by Kent Wilson on Aug 19, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Why dump on Newf and Cory? Either one is worth more than Langkow and Jokinen put together. It wasn’t Daymond or Ollie who started that comeback from being down 0-3 against Marleau… And Newf is the guy who best comebines both styles of Jay-Bo and Robyn, with Cory a deputy to Regehr. Keep ’em all. They worth every penny to Kipper.
i don’t think anyone’s dumping on sarich —-he just has the biggest contract of any “expendable” guy on the team [and, here, i’m presuming a healthy regehr and phaneuf —both of which should be clear by the end of next week]. and fyi: i hear gio’s name in trade suggestions FAR more than pardy’s…..
by walkinvisible on Aug 20, 2009 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions
walkinvisible
I’ve been waiting for someone to broach the idea of Marc Giordano moving. Adam Pardy could be moved. The big fella from The Rock is definitely an improvement over other recent Big Men but, we do have Aulie rising faster, and no one wants to beat the Backlund drum just yet but, he does have some admirable skills in his own end to go with nice break-out passes. Langkow anyone?
i generally don’t like it when people broach the idea of gio moving. it honestly kills me (he’s my favorite current flame, just ahead of sjöström !) but the way he’s been treated by the org in the past, i wouldn’t be surprised to see him departing as part of a package. still, gio at a cap hit of 892K won’t buy you anything in the way of comparable value, whereas sarich’s 3.6mil could pretty easily….
aulie’s at least a year away, probably two.
by walkinvisible on Aug 20, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to dwell on Cheechoo… but didn’t he play w/Grier and other third line muckers last season? If he could put up Bourque-like numbers… which I think he can… Who knows – he’ll land somewhere (Tampa, Atlanta, somewhere like that, though the Sens could take a chance, as well) and perhaps resurrect his career. Agree with the above comments on Regher. He’ll make a fine coach someday. And I still think Sarich is a keeper. He could re-sign for less. He likes Calgary. His family wants to be here. He may sign for less to stay “home”. I hope so. As for Jokinen, if he scores 30 goals, what then? Does he get signed? Will he sign for less just to stay with a team in a city that appreciates him? (IF he scores 30!) I guess Cammy was sent packing, so that may be the answer right there. Finally, I think Newf and Corey are worth more than Langs and Jokinen. Good point. I do love Langkow, though, and hope he finishes his career here in Calgary… albeit for less money come contract renewa!!
I’d take a flier on Cheechoo if it was to ride shotgun along one of our young centers, but not if he’s obligated to play in the top 3 or top 6.
I think it’d be great experience to have a shot like that with a budding playmaker like Boyd or Backlund – without the pressure of having to score all of our goals. The ‘development’ line.
Cheechoo isn’t bad defensively, and he has grit too – he’d be an interesting fit.
I agree that the 56 goals are an outlier, but I think he can be a 25 goal guy with the right playmaking centre or plumber.
Dawes – Boyd – Cheechoo has some merit as a line.
Problem with Cheechoo is I dont like him more than any of our current top 9 wingers, aside from maybe Dawes. And I’d rather take a shot with Dawes @ 875k than Cheechoo at 3M.
Really Kent? Than top 9? That’s not just hyperbole? I actually feel that I don’t know enough about Cheechoo to say anything other than the SJ-CGY series a bit back. He looked better than a 4th liner in those games and he did score 56 goals one season. I know his scoring has dropped off and he’s 3 mil. and if we traded for him I would probably say “ugh, a 3 million contract now…and for Cheech?” but is he really that bad? I just don’t know.
D for 3 and now goal for 21 years, of course I'm a goaltender apologist.
I don’t know how much can be attributed to injury the last couple of seasons, but Cheechoo has been fairly awful two years in a row. I prefer Moss, Bourque, Glencross and Iginla without hesitation, given Cheechoo’s salary. After that, he’s likely better than Sjostrom and Nystrom (if they make the top 9) and Dawes and Boyd, but given his age, price and ongoing injury concerns, I don’t know if I’d gamble on him.
If he can get past whatever is ailing him, then he’s probably a 25 goal scorer with enough ice time and with a good enough puck distributor on his line.
by Kent Wilson on Aug 20, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
The problem I have isn’t even the player so much as the fact that the Flames don’t really have a salary to move, and not enough cap space to do it for prospects. Cheechoo isn’t worth Sarich, and San Jose can’t take that sort of salary back at any rate.
by Robert Cleave on Aug 20, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
If you can move the cap space to experiment with it , then you’re not really losing out, no?
We have an established back end, not many spaces to ‘gamble’ with there, and our goaltending position is set.
Why not experiment with your front ranks regardless of salary? Especially if you have the room to do it? Cheechoo on the 3rd line at 3M offsets a top 6 performance from GlenX or Bourque at 1M and change. It doesn’t matter who makes the money, as long as we maximize the production.
That, and we have a gap for forwards that can put the puck in the net.
Sutter Fetishes
LOL!!! Funniest thing I’ve read all week!! Lol.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Northwest Standings
Flames Schedule
Next 5 Games
Vancouver
|
Tue 09/21 | 6:00 PM PDT |
|
@
Vancouver
|
Tue 09/21 | 7:00 PM PDT |
|
Tampa Bay
|
Sat 09/25 | 6:00 PM PDT |
|
Phoenix
|
Tue 09/28 | 6:00 PM PDT |
|
@
New York Islanders
|
Wed 09/29 | 5:00 PM PDT |
Last 5 Games
|
@
Vancouver
|
Sat 04/10 | L 3 - 7 |
|
Minnesota
|
Thu 04/08 | SO - L 1 - 2 |
|
San Jose
|
Tue 04/06 | L 1 - 2 |
|
@
Chicago
|
Sun 04/04 | L 1 - 4 |
|
@
Colorado
|
Fri 04/02 | W 2 - 1 |
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Puck Daddy news: NHL Store event, Bourne debut on Wednesday
- James Sheppard's make-or-break year gets broken in ATV accident
- Puck Headlines: NHL 11 reviews; Phaneuf sees Leafs in playoffs
- Which current players will own their sweater numbers in NHL?
- NHL 2010-11 Season Preview: Wrestling with Chicago Blackhawks
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
