Dustin Boyd and the threat of an offer sheet
by Kent Wilson on Jul 24, 2009 9:14 AM PDT
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PrintPretend, for a moment, that you're an NHL general manager. One of the Flames major or minor rivals in the Western Conference, for instance. You wake up this morning, have a coffee, read the paper and check a few emails. Things are slowing down after the draft and initial flurry of UFA madness. You'd like to maybe add another piece or two up front, but you blew your wad on some shiny bauble on July 1st. Besides - there isn't much left to choose from anyways.
So you talk to some scouts, your assistant GM, maybe a few agents and you learn the Flames have yet to re-sign 22 year old Dustin Boyd. You check some numbers and find out he's still trying to find his footing in the big leagues, but has the track record and the pedigree to develop into a potential 20 goal, top 6 forward. Then you check the Flames cap numbers.
Looks like they're right up against it. Less than a million bucks worth of space.
This, you'd likely conclude, is advantageous. Obviously Calgary is trying to get the kid as cheaply as possible and it's causing some friction. An offer sheet, say in the 4 year, 1.9M/season range, would cause significant problems for Calgary for a couple of reasons:
1.) Boyd signs and the Flames match the offer. Now they're spending about $1M/year more on the player than they feel comfortable doing AND it forces them over the cap. You don't get the player, but you throw a monkey wrench into the Flames plans.
2.) Boyd signs and the Flames don't match. Now you've stolen a young, burgeoning NHLer who will likely provide value in the latter half of his contract and all it's cost you is less than 2M per year and a third round draft pick.
Win-win.
Obviously this is a far fetched scenario and not one I expect to actually occur. Still, if you were Lowe (er...I mean...Tambellini) or Gillis or Fletcher or any one of the other NHL GM's that would like to see the Flames fall why wouldn't you do this? Perhaps some don't want to poison the well with Sutter and scuttle future potential deals while others may not like or need Boyd...but you'd think someone would follow the path I laid out above to it's logical conclusion.
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Toronto
I think you have a great point… but if Burke is “rebuilding” the leafs as he says, I think Boyd would be a HUGE asset for him to gamble on and bring in… lots of minutes, great young prospect and fairly cheap (like you mentioned, ~1.9m & 3rd rounder) potential top 6 forward…. I can see that as being something he would try…. as its likely they will never be trade partners in the future…. Toronto has little to offer Sutter….
I think Sutter would match and bury Primeau in the minors… wouldn’t that solve the problem??
"It's a great day for hockey" - BBJ
by jealous broadcaster on Jul 24, 2009 10:19 AM PDT reply actions
Probably, but it would still be a big piss-off for the organization. Boyd would jump to the 4th highest paid forward on the club. Suddenly, the Flames are paying $3.3M to play Boyd on the 3rd/4th line and Primeau in the minors. And that’s the best case scenario for Calgary if this hypothetical were to occur.
by Kent Wilson on Jul 24, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think Flames ownership cares about a few million rotting in the minors… they let Ericsson and Nilson (and even Warrener to some extent) get paid handsomely to not f**k up the cap.
Why would that change now, with the interest in making Abbotsford a long-term success? It won’t.
"It's a great day for hockey" - BBJ
by jealous broadcaster on Jul 24, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
A million-nine for Boyd puts them very tight to the cap, even if they minor-ize Primeau. If they run a forward short (13) and keep 7D and 2G, they would have about 650K of cap space. Put Van Der Gulik, who’s the cheapest available option, in as the 23rd player on the roster, and they would have 168K of cap space on opening night. I know Sutter ran things really tight last year, but that would be pushing it. If Boyd were ever to sign the sort of offer sheet that Kent is mooting, it would be a serious issue.
by Robert Cleave on Jul 24, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Boyd is a keeper, but will we?
Giordano, Eriksson, Pelech, Primeau, Vandergulik, Greentree; all have something new to prove, all are on the edge, it will be a battle at camp as usual, will anyone else be acquired?
1. giordano is steady as & shouldn’t need to prove anything, he just needs a coach who will support him and not lambaste him for playing a solid game.
2. by eriksson, i presume you mean erixson. dude, the guy’s 18 years old. sure, he might get invited to camp but there’s no way in hell he’s going to surpass pelech/kronwall for the 7th spot on the blueline this season.
3. i think DVDG has proven himself as a competant fourth-liner, but then sutter still went out and signed a bunch of other bottom sixers for him to compete with… more than likely the guy will end up in the A.
4. primeau has probably already worked out a deal with DaSu to either spend the year on LTIR (a la warrener) or in the A (a la anders eriksson). i’m guessing his 1.4 mil in capspace has already been earmarked elsewhere.
5. when your team’s top six defensemen are regehr, bouwmeester, sarich, gio, and pardy (and kronwall is on a one-way deal), it becomes clear that pelech’s gonna have to wait for injuries to play in the NHL again.
6. greentree will definitely be battling for a spot, yes. good call, you.
by walkinvisible on Jul 24, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
that’s reggie, jaybouw, DION, sarich, gio & pardy, of course.
by walkinvisible on Jul 24, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Have there been any offer sheets to RFAs from other teams this summer? I don’t want to say collusion (I guess I just did) but it seems after the last couple of years, teams offering contracts to other teams RFAs has gone way down again.
No kidding. The last one I can remember are Dustin Penner as well as the Blue/Canucks battling over some periphery players that I can’t recall. Perhaps the “gentlemans handshake” is back in effect.
by Kent Wilson on Jul 24, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually, the offer sheet Vancouver gave out was to David Backes. St. Louis retaliated by giving a sheet to Steve Bernier. Bernier might be a peripheral part of things in Vancouver, but the offer sheet to Backes was prescient on Gillis’ part.
The “Old Boys Club” effect is still pretty strong, and most GMs act as if it’s poaching. I know they’ve operated in a cap world for longer, but the NBA seems to manage without GMs getting at each other’s throats.
by Robert Cleave on Jul 24, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Ahh, that’s right. Backes has turned into quite player for sure.
by Kent Wilson on Jul 24, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
So do you guys see Boyd as potential Top 6?? I guess that’s the sticking point. If the Flames Brass doesn’t , why would they offer Top6 money? And if he is, and they are strapped for cash, couldn’t they have it incentive laddled? Not going against the cap if he doesn’t reach the incentives?
I don;t think Bert comes into the equation, they’ve already made up their mind about him.
But, money wise, Bert is likely to be buried. So it shouldn’t be that big an issue.
I could see young teams like Nash,Columbus,St. Louis seeking out a guy like this.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Jul 24, 2009 10:47 AM PDT reply actions
Only entry level deals and retirement (post 36 years old) contracts can have incentive clauses under this CBA. It’s not an option with Boyd.
The issue for the Flames is, Boyd has already had 130 NHL games before his 23rd birthday, a lot of which were pure growing pains. The Flames are poised to reap the benefits from those early years as Boyd enters the next phase of development, which is the point of throwing a kid like him in the big league pool, so to speak.
by Kent Wilson on Jul 24, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Boyd
Dustin will be a Leaf sooner than later. I luv my Flames [89&04] but, maybe trade a collection of 3rd & 4th liners along w/ Giordano & Pelech? They’re native to Ontario. I’d like to see Stajan in Fire Red.
this is blasphemy in my books, niulrana. keep your filthy trade discussion involving my boy gio to yourself…. besides, an unproven possible gem like pelech should be kept for the moment, methinks….
by walkinvisible on Jul 24, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Intersting...and
isn’t there a new clause in the CBA that prevents large market teams from outbidding small market teams on contracts just like this? I am probably wrong and/or confusing this with something else, but I thought their was some sort of protection for the smaller market teams from getting outbidded by a Vancouver, Toronto, Detroit on offer sheets. If I can remember where it was Tony Gallagher was writing something about that when the Flames dumped Vandameer on Pheonix and brought back Prust.
Although, if I was Gillis, I would have done it already cause there top 9 are full of as many holes as our top 9.
here is the article
“But in this league, the CBA prevents the Canucks from spending more and outbidding smaller markets like Calgary for players they deem to be better. So when your money as a fan is being used by loser teams to beat your own, which is financially prevented from putting a better team in front of you, as a paying customer you probably have the right to ask why.” – or it this only for UFA’s? I not fully familier with Gallagher’s info
All he means is that teams can’t outspend each other the way they used to pre-lockout. Oh, and Tony Gallagher is dumber than a sack of axe handles. The end.
by Robert Cleave on Jul 24, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
He’s only describing the effects of the salary cap. Meaning, now New York and Detroit can’t pay their stars virtually unlimited amounts of money, thereby preventing clubs like PHX and EDM from ever attracting big name free agents. He’s also pissed off that the “have” teams are basically financing the have not PHX Coyotes, who are basically being run by the league now.
It’s just bitching. There’s no clause in the CBA that says “large market teams can’t outbid small market teams”. Besides, Calgary is probably considered a large market in the NHL these days.
Annnnd…Robert’s beaten me to the punch I see.
by Kent Wilson on Jul 24, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
gotcha. That paragraph seemed totally out to lunch to me as well. I just thought there was yet another clause in the CBA I had no idea/understanding about.
Well, then I don’t see what will be holding up Gillis? Cause he’s icing a team of the two Sedins and practically 10 washed up and/or third line forwards – which suits me fine.
I’d take Ryan Kesler on my team any day of the week, but beyond him, sure.
by Robert Cleave on Jul 24, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh sure, me too. But in that any day of the week situation, wouldn’t you see Kesler as a great replacement for Conroy? ie. on the third line.
He’s a very good two-way top sixer for a good team. Decent skill and can handle playing the other team’s good players. He’s a more obnoxious version of Craig Conroy when Conroy was at his peak as a player, not the current, still useful, version. He’s a cut above third-line status for me. Very useful player as a number two center, IMO.
by Robert Cleave on Jul 24, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
And I was pithier, too! :-P
More to the point, Forbes’ last numbers showed Vancouver as fifth in league revenue for 07/08. Calgary was tied for eighth. How he presumed that the Flames would be massively outspent is beyond me, but like I said, it’s Tony Gallagher.
by Robert Cleave on Jul 24, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Boyd
Jonathan Cheechoo, $3 Million per, 6’1’, 200, 29 yrs old, Moose Factory, Ontario.
Dustin Boyd, Wayne Primeau, Mark Giordano AND Matt Pelech. Call me crazy. Eh.
you’re crazy. absolutely effin’ out of your mind.
by walkinvisible on Jul 24, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure why you have your heart set on so many big trades, especially where we lose young up and coming players. I might advise you read more and post less until you have a stronger grasp on the workings of things. Not that everyone’s opinions aren’t valued, but it seems you are just throwing names around without much thought.
-Colin
CheeChoo is the vernon Wells of the NHL
Nobody in their right mind wants to take him on in a trade.
So Boyd is in, cheaper than expected. Goopd for you guys to get it worked out. Let’s hope for a big year… but they’ll be hard pressed not to give him the deal next year this time.
As for Cheechoo…. apparently on the move. As a Habs fan with little to no info…. Heatley is a shark, Marleau, Erhoff, Cheechoo and Mikhalik (Sp?) are all out of there… no word on who’s leaving La Belle Province… but all should reveal itself soon. I just hope we don’t end up with Cheechoo on our shoes.
by Cruisin4aBruisin on Aug 3, 2009 10:27 PM PDT reply actions
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