Game 6 - the final countdown
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:00 AM PDT
463 comments
Chicago Blackhawks at Calgary Flames, Apr 27, 2009 6:30 PM PDT
I think a lot of fans are silently and secretly preparing their eulogies for the 08/09 Flames today. It's been a dank, cold, depressing spring this year in Calgary; iron gray skies hang lowly above dead trees and the snow dusted ground. Like a scene from Ethan Frome, for those of you familiar.
This particular narrative isn't complete yet, so we don't know for certain if it will finish a tragedy. All the elements are there though, from the Flames now habitual late-season swoon, to the avalanche of injuries to the faint but dwindling hope that drives our protagonists forward but will likely crush them under heel. An all too familiar script for this organization the last few seasons.
Seeing as this may be the final home game of the season, there's still at least one game to celebrate and enjoy, even if the boys fall short. There will be tough questions and finger pointing in the aftermath should the Flames bow out tonight or Wednesday, but we'll leave the introspection till then. On the bright side, Calgary has already won twice at home, the second time convincingly, and have been a strong Home team all year. Dome sweet Dome. Here's hoping the lads have one more good one left in them.
Notes:
- Dion Phaneuf is "questionable" this evening. If he's consussed, I would expect him to sit, leaving the Flames back-end looking like this:
Leopold - Sarich
Aucoin - Pardy
Eriksson - Vandermeer
Yikes. I've given Phaneuf a hard time this year, but his departure tears a huge hole in the blueline. Especially with both Gio and Reggie already hurt.
- I glossed over the various ugly performances from last game, but also failed to mention some of the stand-out efforts, which were notable due to the relative suckitude of the rest of the team. Boyd, Pardy, Peters and Nystrom all put up strong games, especially the latter who is really doing his best this season to make a liar out of my expectations of him (4th liner at best). I dont think he'll ever score much, but more and more Nystrom is looking the kind of depth guy that can hold is own and/or outperform the other team's depth guys.
- Just once it would be nice if the Flames got more PP's than the Blackhawks.
- Watching the Devils/Canes game yesterday was somewhat encouraging, in that it made it clear that very good teams just sometimes get killed on the road. New Jersey, a high quality club without the sort of injuries afflicting the Flames, were outshot 37-28, outscored 4-0 and were fundamentally outplayed for most of the evening. Their difference makers did jack squat.
This isn't to say that the Flames are therefore guaranteed to win tonight or anything - just that the league is highly competitive and home ice is a genuine advantage. Even very, very good clubs get spanked now and then just as the Flames did on Saturday.
- Feel free to add your own lamentations, words of encouragment and obscure literary references in the comments. This could be the final gamethread this year, so let's make it count!
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Game 6 is ours!
I don’t care about the injuries; Erikkson, Pelech anyone can draw in and I don’t care. I’ve seen enough character out of this Flames club this year, enough “no quit” attitude that I expect a great effort by the boys in Red tonight! I expect we will see flailing magnificence out of Kipper tonight and a very mean effort from captain Iginla. I have the faith that everyone will step up and this game will be ours. I don’t think it’ll come easy but the boys will get it done.
Go Flames!
Phaneuf out. I’m afraid as fans by tonight or Wednesday at the latest, we’ll feel a bit like Don Quixote at the end. That is, once again cognizant of reality, and ultimately broken by it.
Oh well, for at least one more night, here’s to the power of self-delusion. Go Flames.
I’m afraid as fans by tonight or Wednesday at the latest, we’ll feel a bit like Don Quixote at the end. That is, once again cognizant of reality, and ultimately broken by it.
Haha! Very well done.
Who says spending 50k (in 1980’s dollars) on your education isn’t a good investment?
Wait, what…?
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
i just read over last year’s post-mortem and it feels pretty accurate to now. also, the infamous csi:eriksson post was the day after, and i already feel like i could probably just re-post it tomorrow… depressing.
buck up folks. i haven’t seen the proverbial fat lady yet. if tomorrow brings depression and sad reality so be it. but that’s tomorrow.
True. If anything, this evening presents an excellent excuse to get drunk on a Monday night, no matter what the outcome is.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
This is so depressing. Along with the weather in Calgary, and monday.
Speaking of drinking though, where’s a good place on 17th to watch the game? I’m thinking Melrose but it will probably be super busy.
by Its Cold In Here on Apr 27, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you’re going to run into that problem anywhere on 17th.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Nobody in Hawksland is counting any chickens, for the record. I expect Iginla will be powerfully motivated; and he, all by himself and on his game, can be a game-changing force the likes of which is rarely seen in this league.
I like our chances if we can play with the same sustained confidence as the last game, obviously; but everyone in both Chicago and Calgary knows that the Flames of tonight won’t be the same team as the Flames of Saturday, so it should be quite the contest.
Good luck … any other year you’d have my fuller support.
I have the same feeling about the Hawks, I’m cheering for them in an alternate universe where you are currently beating up on Vancouver.
You all are poetic.
Referencing Ethan Frome and Don Quixote in the same post? Brilliant. Hopefully we don’t have to include any Ulysses references while we’re at it.
“Oh, it’s only Iginla whose season is beastly dead.”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Or, even worse, Finnegans Wake:
Thus the unfacts, did we possess them, are too imprecisely few to warrant our certitude…
One obvious poetic touchstone...
APRIL is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.
We’ll see if the Flames can stagger out of the Wasteland. Tonight is the first playoff game I managed to swindle tickets for, so I’m hoping for a big performance.
"Ah, Bartleby! Ah, humanity!"
“I would prefer not to” watch the game tonight, but of course I will…
And, I think, it is possible, I may even, perhaps, get to, maybe, watch another game, with the Flames, on Wednesday, of this week. Yes, Mr. Optimist is (kind of) back…
Wow!
I used to teach High School English. This stuff is right up my alley.
Who says hockey fans aren’t smart?
Here’s hoping that the Flames roster is full of monsters who love to get hard on people, at least for the next two games.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
catch 22:
if we can’t win this series, i don’t want chicago so banged up they can’t beat vancouver….
ugh. total connundrum….
;)
no matter who wins
Let have a gentleman’s agreement that the winner destroys Vancouver.
Live long Hawks fan, and my girlfriend lived in Vancouver for 5 years. So….. I’m going to be sleeping alone for 2 weeks, but it will totally be worth it.
so LETS GO DUCKS as well.
I think they will actually give detroit some trouble.
https://www.beardathon.com/blackhawks/cdf12345/profile.aspx
Growin a playoff beard for charity. Detroit sucks.
Anybody got the game on DTV
I had the pregame on FS and then they blacked it out now here in SoCal. Versus has the late DUcks game but nothing and the Center Ice Blackhawk is showing blackout too.
HELP!!!!
This hide and seek with games is getting old. Either show the whole pregame and game or don’t. Stop the teasing.
Dum spiramus tuebimur
same problem here.
trying to find a stream online but none are working. fan 960 for now… probably for the rest of the game.
"The hard... is what makes it great."
Not sure if you guys have tried this one yet…
by Steal Thunder on Apr 27, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
crashing my firefox. did it twice already. too many people on it, perhaps.
"The hard... is what makes it great."
Them streams suck
The ads and herky jerky video make me wish I hadn’t click on the link
Dum spiramus tuebimur
Some math for you courtesy of McGuire
Bertuzzi is very important + NOT SCORED = Important cog?
I would say he has been very important to Chicago’s success, that is for sure.
Almost 2-0
This looks like an early night for me (EST, so that woudl be welcomed in a way).
http://atdhe.net/6192/watch-chicago-blackhawks-at-calgary-flames
Stream for anyone that needs.
-Colin
Dear Flames
Try to try, if only a little bit.
Signed,
The Fans
I agree wholeheartedly
It would be nice to not lose the series on home ice at least.
Y'know who's good?
Boyd, Nystrom and Peters. Best players in the lineup for Calgary. Because they haven’t been led to believe they’re god’s gift to hockey by Darryl Sutter and Mike Keenan.
Guess my letter has not arrived yet
Hopefully it gets to them real soon.
UGH
What a great shift, which promptly gets destroyed by a weak defensive effort.
on the goal?
bertuzzi wasn’t on during the goal…
shift chart, for future reference
"The hard... is what makes it great."
yeah, i'm of no help for most things.
just on the radio tonight.
"The hard... is what makes it great."
As the radio guys just pointed out, even if we lose tonight, the Kelowna Rockets could win, close the series with the giants, and come to town for a series with Hitmen. I wonder what hockey would be like without the disappointment?
I live in Ottawa
so I know nothing about the Western league. Sorry to be of no help.
Cripes. EV shots are 12-4 right now. Looks like games 3 and 4 were an exception to the overall goaltending duel.
Is it too much too ask
for 1 measly goal this period? By stating this have I doomed them to go down 3-0. We shall see.
http://www.atdhe.net/6192/watch-chicago-blackhawks-at-calgary-flames
you can watch it here if you need a feed
I just thought the exact same thing
this is pathetic.
Khabby
…is letting out big rebounds… we need guys going to the front of the net!
And it wouldn’t hurt if we made a little contact with him.
I missed the first due to command central crashing, am here now… brought good luck the last time.. by the sounds of it, Flames need it…
So, all we need to do is keep up the shots, find a way to get a couple of shots behind ‘Bulin, and hold up our end defensively. That’s not too much to ask, is it?
It will be a good idea
and they will try, but a brutally bad goal usually follows these efforts for the Flames, more often than not.
radio says mr. khabibulin is kicking the puck out as far as he possibly can on deflections to foil our forwards. anyone watching on tv confirm?
"The hard... is what makes it great."
Ducks and Sharks drop the puck real soon
If the Flames are going to lose, I request they let it get out of hand in a hurry so I can switch to it and watch two teams that are trying. Real sad when you have to give Thornton more credit than your own team for effort, huh?
Is it just me
Or do the FLames tend to lose a TON of face-offs? I never really look at the stats that much and I am curious if it is true (or at least seems that way to the rest of you).
A few things I've noticed tonight, despite the frustration
• Cory Sarich is definitely a guy you want on your team. When he keeps it simple, he’s great
• Craig Conroy still has a great eye. He looked great on the point just now, and seems to be the Flames’ smartest player overall.
• David Moss and Eric Nystrom are players. Second and third liners respectively, and that’s a line above what I thought each were good for.
Ducks take the first penalty
Sounds like a script we have seen in action, doesn’t it?
That would be twice Jokinen should have potted it
Any chance we see Game 4 Jokinen again? You know, the one that would bury the puck.
are our shots like, real shots? or are they dump-ins from the blue line that just happens to hit khabibulin?!
"The hard... is what makes it great."
A lot of decent shots with up for grabs rebounds
but they seem unable or unwilling to get them.
Holy crap, an ACTUAL HIT
only took 34 minutes.
And with that
I say it is time to go to the Hawks board around here and wish them well.
Have you been watching the same game as us?
Seriously?
On average, if you outshoot a team 3 to 1 over two periods, you don’t lose the game, and most of the time it’s a blowout. Er, a blowout the other way.
True
But, normally, that team doesn’t give up two goals on massively moronic penalties. And that team isn’t completely useless with the PP.
and a FIGHT
Emotion by a team on the brink? MADNESS!
I want Sutter's head
I mean, don’t get me wrong, the whole coaching staff, too. But Sutter’s arrogance doesn’t overcome his smarter moves.
There’s not guarantee that a change of GM is going to make anything better. But I think it’s clear that Sutter has done what he can. I see no reason for Sutter to stay. And we need to get him out before he picks up some other reclamation project.
Here is a question
Is Kiprusoff even a bottom of the top tier goalie? Never mind an elite goalie, as that ship has long since sailed.
No. You can’t throw up back to back sub – .910 SV% seasons and be considered anything but second rate.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Kipper wasn’t even replacement level this year – meaning, he wasn’t better than what the Flames could have scooped for near career minimum.
I looked at those numbers and, like I said, I’m not going to sit here and say he was anywhere close to good enough. But it’s MIKE KEENAN.
Keenan gave him a lot of rope this year, Duncan. More than he deserved to be honest. I think it’s all on Kiprusoff.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Remember, Kipper was a hero in that Detroit series under Canaryshirt. And Canaryshirt was a horrible coach, but perhaps not as toxic as Keenan.
I will never blame Playfair for getting the same result as Sutter the year before and Keenan the year after. 1st year coach and everyone was so quick to roast him.
Playfair was in over his head. His efforts on the road spoke for themselves. And Kipper was a much better goalie that year than he was this year.
And Kipper was a much better goalie when Sutter was bench boss, and in 03-04 we stunk at home and could only win on the road, and in 05-06 we still went out first round. We can torch Playfair all we want but there are a lot trends here that are larger that single year.
For sure, but nothing Playfair did in isolation impressed me. He completely mishandled a number of players, from Amonte down to Lombardi. He was totally, totally overmatched by Babcock in the first round as well.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
No argument there. I just think the amount of fan resentment he gets is excessive compared to Sutter’s debacle the first post-lockout year. He was an easy scapegoat when we were all still claiming to be K.I.S.S!
And now after 4 years of not making it past the first round some serious criticism is coming down on Sutter. A lot of the online blog voices have criticized some of his moves but other fans and the MSM have never criticized a move made but Sutter.
It was easy to blame Playfair in his Rookie year as a coach. But not all rookies have good 1st seasons.
Well, it was a good year folks
Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
by Aditya T (smashville) on Apr 27, 2009 8:04 PM PDT reply actions
Trading Lombardi away IMO turned out to be a bad short term decision as well as a bad long term decision. I thought Jokinen would at least be an upgrade on the PP and possibly EV but I think losing Lombardi has seriously crippled our PK and we’re not any better EV or PP. Camalleri I think was a better PP option.
No stats to back it up, that’s just what I’ve genearlly observed.
Last minute. Enjoy it.
Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
by Aditya T (smashville) on Apr 27, 2009 8:06 PM PDT reply actions
Although self loathing and such is bad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsaTElBljOE
Better to laugh, or we shall just weep at this sad sack group.
To be honest, I didn’t expect this group to make the play-offs this year. Moss/Glencross/Bourque/Boyd/Conroy outperformed my expectations.
The bottom six gets no complaint from me. They were terrific. It wasn’t the depth that let them down this year.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
OMG
Wow I’m stupid. I thought it was the end of the game. I’m sorry if my comments sounded idiotic.
Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
by Aditya T (smashville) on Apr 27, 2009 8:09 PM PDT reply actions
I'm stayin positive
Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
by Aditya T (smashville) on Apr 27, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn right
Would love a Hawks versus Nucks series.
Flames - Nucks would have been so much better
Le Sigh.
A lot of Flames fans in the blogosphere lamented the Jokinen acquisition, and I wondered at first what the hell they were talking about. I mean, it’s Olli freakin’ Jokinen!
And now I understand. I’t’s Olli freakin’ Jokinen…
Hey, I’ve been wanting to ask you: how do you think the Canucks are going to handle all the downtime?
My immediate response is: Not good
I think 10 days is far too much time off.
However, Sundin should be healthy (for what that is worth), and there were a couple other guys who needed the time off too. Not to mention, Pyatt has rejoined the team and should be available if needed. I think that will be a huge boost.
I can’t see them winning Gm 1, though.
Not sure what to think. Midway through the season i thought we had a cup contender. Just a long lucky streak I guess.
-Colin
No, Sutter over-reached
Jokinen deal was all wrong, and Keenan’s love for Bertuzzi can’t be controlled.
DId McKenzie just say
that Keenan is likely going to be the only casualty of YET ANOTHER First Round beatdown? Hard to believe.
And let me say again
I think he’s made a number of brilliant moves. I just think he’s got a God complex, because Ken King isn’t smart enough to handle him.
Flames were a legitimately good ES team this year, due to their depth. However, they had an overly expensive blueline and goaltending that hurt them. plus a lot of underperforming dollars in Iginla and Phaneuf.
All true. I think you can blame handling for a lot of the Iginla/Phaneuf issues, though. Iggy always had linemates that weren’t complimentary, so he’s always trying to do it all himself. Phaneuf was overused and provided with sub-par defence partners. Look at how Seabrook and Keith benefit from playing with each other.
The worst part is
that since the 04 run they have not been close in the last game of a series since.
-The Ducks beat them down badly in game 7
-Detroit was in OT, BUT Detroit dominated the entire game 6
-San Jose POUNDED on them in game 7
-Hawks have obliterated them tonight in game 6
Jury's out on that one
The goal was pretty soft.
Bertuzzi has been known to score
those vital goals when your team is down by three. :-(
Having said that… who knows? Khabi is human, after all.
So who is the top bet for a replacement? Sutter is an obvious choice. Are there any other good options out there?
I fear it
but I have this ungodly feeling Quinn is hanging in the wings.
We’ve been on him all year, but he gives his high end guys a lot of opportunities. Bertuzzi doesn’t deserve them, but Iginla, Jokinen, and Phaneuf have been fed one chance after another. He was likely guilty of believing in them too much. Those guys and Kiprusoff have to look in the mirror pretty damned hard.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I dont really know who that is but im sure itll be fine. Any coach will observe his team and understand playing the goalie every game is stupid and jokinen/iggy DO NOT WORK. Thats half the battle no? Bert will go too. I have to admit after watching cammalleri in playoffs i wont miss him really at all either (Tanguay anyone?)
i second someone entirely new to the nhl. don’t know who, but that sounds like a good idea.
"The hard... is what makes it great."
Of course, Playfair was such a disaster
so what chance does a fresh fresh face have with this core group?
McGill’s the QC coach. He’s done an incredible job with the farm guys, who all come in knowing exactly how to play. He had Cory Clouston UNDER him in junior. I think he’s ready.
Him or Arniel would suit me if the go that route. I do fear a retread if Sutter is GM.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I pray you are wrong
but again fear you are right.
No, he's entirely to blame
He hired Keenan, signed Bertuzzi, traded for Jokinen. Those moves erased Glencross/Bourque.
Also, who has he drafted that has panned out for us (as of yet)
Backlund would be the only apparent success.
I was referring to top 6 talentq
I was not clear enough on that. FLames have developed lots of fourth and a few third liners, but not much in the way of top 6 forwards or top 4 d-men.
I think they were loathe to put Jokinen with Bertuzzi on a soft minutes line. If Bertuzzi is replaced by some with a passing familiarity with his own end, they might not force the Jokinen-Iginla pair quite so hard.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Look, let's make this clear
Sutter took this team from an also-ran to a Stanley Cup finalist, but four straight one-and-outs is not what we should expect as fans. It’s just not good enough, and there’s an expiration date for appreciation-of-Stanley-Cup-final-appearances. Lowe is already out in Edmonton, and that was 2006.
I would say that run was more a team getting hot
as much as that hurts to admit. The teams since have been more talented yet have failed consistently.
How’s this for a comparison: it us four years for us to play as many playoff games as we did in one season in 2004.
Do want this team to ever score again on the PP?
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions
They don't want to now
so that seems fairly moot. XD
I would rather see a team of two way Bourques for an entire team. Get another bourque to replace cammalleri. Im thinking upshall would do wonders, I like two way players. Detroit is full of them
Detroit should be the model, and not just because they’ve done it with some weak goaltending. I don’t know if we can manage to be a favourite every year, but we should be a contender every year. That’s definitely within reach with our depth.
Detroit has RIDICULOUS scouting
How wuld the Flames possibly fix their “proof is in the pudding” broken scouting system. Players dop exist outside of the WHL in junior.
I love when the producer goes to the wrong net cam
And you just get a view of the opposing goaltender’s ass.
And the empty netter within 30 seconds.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Symptomatic of a lot of Flames coasting into plays, I’m afraid.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
so i dont wanna be that guy but at what point do we consider maybe iggy isnt the answer? he seems to be consistently captaining a team that ALWAYS underperforms
THis year is the first year I appreciate this line of thought
he has been invisible for a lot of this series. Worse than usual honestly.
Iginla has been full value for years, but he was not anywhere near good enough this season. I’m going to look at his full season performance in the next few days. I dont think the results will be pretty.
He was actually better in the “Jarmoe” year, but he had no offensive help at all that year. This year wasn’t good by any measure but the boxcars.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
woohoo!
Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
by Aditya T (smashville) on Apr 27, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
thats so gay. Anaheim has to lose. I really want vancouver out BAD! all those arrogant prick vancouver fans acting like they won the cup after the first round. ACT LIKE YOUVE BEEN THERE BEFORE DOUCHES
Biggest condemnation of Sutter yet?
Matt Walker: $600,000/yr on one-year deal
Jim Vandermeer: $2.3 million/yr on three-year deal
Any difference between the players? If anything, Walker is better.
May the Hawks do well
because they are fun to watch when they are not beating on the Flames.
injuries were bad and i cant help but think regher in those first couple games would be enough. that being said though this team is rediculous! I hope Keenan is fired tonight, I hope Sutter is given an interview for his job so he can explain himself and maybe iggy needs to pass the C to Glencross. At least he cares and will lead by example not call out his team mates to only do nothing himself like he has done all season. Give it back to Conroy!
No doubt. Gio and Bourque were fabulous all year, Regehr is Regehr, Langkow was definitely playing injured, there were some crazy bounces as well. This was a very good hockey team up until about 2 weeks left in the season.
That is amazing, but let’s be honest here. A lot of those shots were just thrown on net, and two of the Hawks’ three goals were off stupid penalties. The Flames blew good leads in Games 1 and 2 by failing to keep up a level of play required to win. You can’t take series that way.
I am hanging till the end of the Ducks game
Anyone else gonna stick it out?
Im sure comments will trickle in as the night goes on. One guy came on later after the game 2 win to berate everyone involved in the gamethread earlier for not being believers enough.
Oh he will LOVE this one
We were somewhere south of the believing line. Like at the south pole or so.
we … didn’t win game two?
also, fyi, your sig link doesn’t work.
"The hard... is what makes it great."
did you try making it http://www.matchsticksandgasoline.com? iirc, that was the fix, but that’s probably been tried already, so … eh, i don’t know.
"The hard... is what makes it great."
Sadly
I really doubt it’s going to happen. Ken King, who’s apparently untouchable, says repeatedly that Darryl Sutter is a genius. He let him bring in Bertuzzi, tickle the cap dangerously, and approved 2.3/yr over three for Vandermeer. King doesn’t know enough about hockey to decide to move Sutter out. Onl/y hope is that ownership figures out that King isn’t the right guy for the club.
That is a depressing thought
Even more depressing is that the sign veterans and hang about in the 5th-8th slot for the foreseeable future is worse. The Blues did that for years, and delayed rebuilding… not good at all.
how do u rebuild though? sell everything? I dont think the fans will accept iggy going and regher is enough to make u competitive and u need to keep phaneuf. I think the future still looks pretty bright considering backlund and aulie and such are coming up. pelech didnt look bad either
Iginla is still a Flame for at least another 3 years
but after that they should ship him to a stacked team to give him a shot at a cup. He could be a key way to get some picks.
I personally want a cup for him,
though seeing the Flames win is just as important for me.
It’d be great for him to win a cup, but it’s nowhere close to as important as the Flames getting it.
No way! I wanna see him win it more. he has to win it before he retires. he has to. I would much rather see him win it even if its not on the flames
Whoa
Hang on a second here. The only albatrosses here are, potentially, Kipper and Vandermeer. Phaneuf just needs better coaching, the talent is there. This team needs better coaching and smarter managment, then give that a couple of years.
Im pretty disheartened.
I honestly thought they would win. i truly did and i dont know what to think now
Cosign. Kiprusoff’s contract is a problem, but most of that team is decent.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I really hope Phaneuf can recover
because he was looking like a surefire force for years to come. This year… not even close.
And without that offensive force
his carelessness and penalties were more magnified than usual.
At some point, they might have to put him with Regher and let him sink or swim as a top 2 guy. I’m not sure how long a guy on his pay scale can be on the second pair.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Another brawl in Anaheim
Remember when the Flames had that type of heart?
Great series guys
I know it must sting but from the Chicago end the Flames kept us nervous throughout, and every game was pretty entertaining.
White Sox: Trying to roll a hard six.
Yup. Well played. Best of luck in the next round.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions
hey we can always look on the bright side … we arent edmonton. itll be years before they are ready to challenge anything
True enough. Thornton is going to be treated like a soccer player that scored an own goal in that town.
I hope you’re not implying he’ll meet the same fate as that Columbian dude. That’d be harsh, I’d say.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder who will want him?
I mean, he has a HUGE choker label that is going to be about Elephant size by the end of this debacle (if the Sharks hold true to form tonight).
you know who i think they should trade him for … thornton for doan. i think it would help both teams meet their respective needs
It'll be amazing if the Bruins win the cup
Considering how crucified they were for dealing Thornton. They essentially traded Thornton for Chara in the end, and that’s a good deal.
That trade worked out pretty well for them
Hockey news had an article on that a few months ago.
I'm rooting for them to come out of the East.
They’re a solid team.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
He has to go I think, even though
Him and Sutter are in the same boat. Both have to go after yet another failure.
Sorry guys
I watched this on TSN by way of VS. The way Bulin played, no way the Flames were going to win. You have to give credit to Chicago, they did a great job taking time and space away from the Flames. And it’s certainly not the Flames’ fault that they had all of those injuries. Guys like Langkow and Sarich would not have been playing if this were a regular season game. Langkow couldn’t even shoot tonight, which is a shame.
I would have liked to see this series with two healthy teams. The Flames’ PP would have done more if they had a healthy Phaneuf and Giordano back there.
The parallels continue… my two teams faded late in the season and lost home-ice advantage in the playoffs. They both faced teams against whom they did not match up well. They both lost in 6 games, and they both lost Game 6 at home.
This must somehow be my fault, even though I’m in a different time zone. I accept partial responsibility.
What’s to be done in the offseason?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
So it was you that caused this! /JK.
Seriously, I think Keenan takes the hit. It won’t entirely fair, because he didn’t make Iginla ineffective, and I really don’t blame him for Kiprusoff’s decline, but that’s how these things normally shake out. On the player side, Bertuzzi and Aucoin are likely out, and Cammalleri is probably gone for financial reasons. They need at least two guys that are cheap-ish that can play in the top 6, either internally or via free agency, and they need to find a backup that they trust more than McE.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
In all honesty this is what i would do...
Fire Keenan is job 1 (replace with brent sutter or a rookie coach)
Let Bert and Cammalleri go
Get a good back up for Kipper who can play 30 games
phaneuf will naturally get better (hopefully iggy too)
resign leopold, gio will be back to round out the defense (buy out vandermeer if hes untradeable)
Pelech will play, backlund should too
move boyd to first or 2nd line
Trade jokinen for someone like Bourque (im thinking Upshall)
Let every defensive liability go and replace when good two way scorers will less offensice upside (im thinking Cammaller, Bert, Jokinen, etc.)
Hmmm
How do you replace Cammy’s scoring though? Will Backlund be ready?
Phoenix likes the Upshall-Lombardi combo too much. Neither of those guys are going anywhere.
Re: Backups, I think the Flyers are going to pursue Craig Anderson. You guys can sign Antero Niittymaki and have two Finnish goalies. Niitty is a solid backup who can get hot and start several games in a row for you. Plus, you’ll never lose to the Atlanta Thrashers with him in net.
You need depth at center. This is why you hold on to Jokinen, at least for now.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
how big is OJ’s contract?
also – i’m also in the boat that believes he’ll be better if there’s a coaching change.
"The hard... is what makes it great."
One more year at 5 and change.
Jokinen had his best seasons under Keenan. I don’t think he has a bigger fan. I dont know if he’ll do more under anyone else.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
cammys scoring will be covered with a healthy bourque (god forbid) better defensive coverage, a healthy phaneuf, and all that. they dont need to be over great at scoring they need to get better at cutting down on GA.
Nittymaki may be a great option. I wonder how that will hinder other young player development but it may take time.
In my oppinion they have enough depth at center as the lines stand now it would be (in a perfect world):
Bourque-Langkow-Iggy
x – Jokinen – Boyd
Glencross – Conroy – Moss
nystrom – peters- backlund
Theres actually 6 centers there. I think with that line up they would be fine. If backlund isnt ready either VDG or someone else from the farm will be ready (maybe resing lundmark?)
That's just enough time...
… to order a pizza and have it delivered by LaDanian Tomlinson. Too bad I don’t live in California.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
It's a damn bait and switch!
You order the pizza and some stoned dude comes to the door after about 45 minutes…I’ve yet to see Tomlinson!
Peter Mahr on the radio just now...
…said Phaneuf was playing through sever injury issues all year, including broken ribs near the end. he also said he has a chronic hip issue which will likely have to be operated on this summer.
This information really softens my criticisms of Dion’s season.
Bizarre
If so, why don’t they sit him down and let him recover? In his early 20s, that’s the right move. I don’t buy the “severe” until the end.
I know. Mahr said Phaneuf tried to rehab it during the summer, but it flared up during the season and just got worse. I dont understand why Keenan would insist on playing the guy so much with this in mind.
Especially since he wasn’t a lone man in a barren landscape on the Flames back-end; Calgary had the most expensive blueline in the league for Gods sake.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
i have to admit im not surprised they release that news now, they did the same when phaneuf was playing on a broken foot. i wonder who else was playing injured plase say iggy to restore my faith in him
I hope to God Jarome bounces back next year.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
And makes me question the judgment of management that they didn’t head this off sooner. He’s a damn valuable part of the future. The kid won’t pull him self, so who’s the grown up to get him healthy.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions
No kidding. Mahr actually said at one point “half his body is in shambles” or something to that effect.
That’s a pretty major indictment of Keenan and Sutter. I know guys play hurt in the playoffs as a matter of course, but if the kid was hurt all season, I’m quite sure 25 minutes a night was no cure. They weren’t that thin, especially before Gio and Regher went down.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
disagreed. if dion’s hurting that bad, step aside. a guy like matt pelech could really have done with some extra TOI in the biggies.
by walkinvisible on Apr 27, 2009 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Mahr was adamant and specific about Dion’s injuries.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I hear you, but players will never do that, WI. Keenan and Sutter run the team, and should have the best interest of the team at heart. Running Phaneuf into the ground when he was hurt was dumb, full stop. Dion’s 23 and figures he’s bullet proof, like most people that age, but he ain’t the boss.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
fair enough. my biggest critique of the 06 olympics was the management/coaching staff playing an injured pronger over a healthy dan boyle. i admit that pelech is no boyle but when it became apparent that dion was suffering, WHY did the coaches insist on continuing to play him 25 minutes a night ? this is an outrage, if you ask me. if there were (during the season —-playoffs are a different beast) injuries to phaneuf, then why not replace him ???
WHY ? puuure cap mismanagement. simple…
by walkinvisible on Apr 27, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
And the cap mismanagement stuff would have been a bullshit excuse earlier in the year, because they could have LTI’d him and saved a shit load of money at 80 grand a game or whatever his salary works out to. Just dumb all around.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
From this side of the fence, it doesn’t make a lick of sense. I know Dion is a gamer and wants to play every game, but…come on. The dude is the “future of the franchise” kind of player and the Flames had adequate depth.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
i will repeat this tomorrow in my post-mortem, but some random dude walked down to ice level and tossed his iginla JERSEY over the glass in the last minutes… honestly? that struck me somewhere deep inside. this guy, whoever he was, made a MASSIVE statement to the team by throwing 200 bucks worth of his captain’s numbers onto the ice to say “jarome, you sucked this year” ….. and i give huge applause to that dude.
that was described by the radio guys as “trash on the ice,” i think. inadvertent, i’m sure. but knowing what that was. wow. quite impressive.
"The hard... is what makes it great."
Wow
Iginla facing his first true adversity from Flames fans.
Good news???
Backlund scored 3, including the OT winner, to win the series over the Vancouver Giants tonight.
holy shit that is good news! he’ll make the team next year. you could see in that one game he played that he had so much talent just wasnt quite ready
I dont know if he will or not, but these results are encouraging in terms of long term forecasts.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s getting more comfortable by the day over here. He might need some time in the A, but he does look like a gooder.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
He can take Primeau’s spot in the line-up. I hope. Another anchor that needs to be cut from the ship.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
One more year, sadly. Oh, and what Kent says below.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
i have been working on a csi: sutter post. it’s not ready yet but i will say this: my buddy at the nhlpa (who is very knowledgeable when it comes to cap issues) has called my critique an “impressive insight”…. he can’t say much more, obviously… so i think i’m on the right track
by walkinvisible on Apr 27, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m guessing the shorter WI would read, “Sutter made a damn mess.”
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
i think sutter did some amazing things. i also think that sutter did some questionable things, and sutter did some deplorable things…. in the end, i think it’s time for someone new to give it a shot. my fear is that i’m not sure who is out there that can do it better….
by walkinvisible on Apr 27, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s my fear as well. He turned the franchise around, no question. He took some risks which in hindsight can be called questionable but as a GM you have to take some risks. Tough call.
-Colin
my problem lies less with his risks (bertuzzi, nolan, even jokinen to some respects) and more with his big contracts for average players (mark smith, eriksson, warrener, vandermeer). i also seriously question his inability to promote young talent (giordano in 07/08, boyd all of this year).
by walkinvisible on Apr 27, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
i think there are definitely players i’m not listing, here. prust was ready to go when we signed godard. peters was ready when we picked up roy…. the list of “could have been promoted” guys is endless, and sutter signed 4 minute a night vets.
again, i think he’s made some stellar moves (glenX, bourque, kipper) but his mis-steps have been plentiful as well…
by walkinvisible on Apr 27, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Moss’ new contract will likely end up as a tick in the good column as well.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions
but will kipper and dion’s contracts end up as ticks in the bad column ?
by walkinvisible on Apr 27, 2009 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Magic 8 ball says…ask me this time next year.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
it’s hard to argue that they were bad ideas at the time, and i don’t know if you can hold them against him.
i think phaneuf will be fine. he’s been playing beyond hurt all year.
kipper, i don’t know. i would invest in a second goalie, but i think that’s been rehashed plenty of times in this thread.
"The hard... is what makes it great."
Overpays for multiple years (Eriksson, Primeau, Warrener, Vandermeer) are killers. You either have to waive players or they clog your roster, because there aren’t enough Don Waddell’s out there to help you out.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
So I did…;) although, at a million a year, he was on the low end of the scale, and he was genuinely useful until he got hurt at the end of 05/06.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions
still a long-term signing that we hid elsewhere this season. warrener on LTIR, eriksson in the AHL and nilsson in the euros…. total pricetag ? 5 million dollars wasted by this club.
by walkinvisible on Apr 27, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions
funny, i am not a huge Sutter supporter these days, but I find the fact that he could “hide” that 5 million elsewhere an effective use of the cap system. If those 5 mil aren’t on the books, then they aren’t wasted.
Paying Vandy what we did (and Bert)… that is wasted money.
i’m sorry but i think it’s tough to explain to the owners how you spent 5 million dollars on guys who didn’t play for your team, yet were unable to afford 40K in replacement players in the last ten days of the season. this is the basis of my upcoming rant. check hitthepost.ca in the coming days….
by walkinvisible on Apr 27, 2009 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions
it’s gonna be a good one (i hope —-i haven’t written it yet, still researching). i hope it goes viral. sutter’s got the public snowed.
by walkinvisible on Apr 27, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I look forward to it as well – I was thinking of writing a fanpost “In defense of Sutter?”, but I couldn’t get past the “?”. I’m not at all happy with the known (the constant first round exits" but am much more worried about the unknown. I’m so scared about returning to the 97-03 years that I’d rather have the first round exits.
but wouldn’t you RATHER have another cup run ???
by walkinvisible on Apr 28, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Yup. He and Vandermeer are the stealth bad contracts. 3.7 million for a 13th forward and a 7th defenceman.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah. Someone needs to acquaint Sutter with “replacement level”.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Eh…Kipper is a contract I dont really blame Sutter for. He signed him when there was a reasonable expectation that he’d continue to be an excellent goalie.
That said, the organization needs to go forward with it’s eyes open in regards to Kipper. No more of this “yeah, he’s still a great goalie stuff”. It’ll be managable that way. Otherwise, they’ll just keep playing him 75 games a year, costing the club wins and points along the way.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
i wonder if kippy would’ve looked better these last few games if keenan had the balls to play cumac more during the season….
by walkinvisible on Apr 27, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
If he could get back to decent by playing 55-60 times a year, and a decent second could put in place (either McE or someone else), fair enough. I hope he isn’t shot, because that’s a pile of cap space for a goalie who can’t break .910 2 years in a row.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Im of the mind now that teams should almost always be trying to cultivate the next starter…or at least a 1B guy. Unless you have, say, Luongo in net.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
i think irv’s got potential… but he’s still at least a year away….
by walkinvisible on Apr 27, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Joe Thornton’s line: 17:44 (6th most TOI amongst SJ forwards) 0g,0a, E, 1 shot. I think he’s in for another rough summer.,
He’s the invisible man in the post season.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 27, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
McLellan wanted him to move off the wall and get more involved in the middle of the ice. I wonder if the lower ice time was a statement of displeasure?
by Robert Cleave on Apr 27, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, with the right coaching, etc. I think we’ve got a lot of players who can build off of this year and will be very effective next year: Bourque, Moss, Glencross, Giordano, Boyd, Pardy, Pelech. And some vets that have shown that they can be valuable like Sarich & Conroy). I’d put Aucoin in there too but not for what he got paid this year.
I’m sure most of feel that way… while still feeing that the big guns have got to step it up next season. We’ve got most of our cap wrapped up in a 3 guys that need to be better and 2 that I feel were worth the $ (Regher and Langkow obviously).
It’ll be a long few months. Until then, I’m cheering for Boston (so many ex-Flames and the always entertaining Tim Thomas) and Chicago.
Late night summary
I just read all the comments, and as always am impressed with the insight of dedicated Flames fans. The wound is too fresh right now for me to think completely rationally, but in general I don’t agree with the “Sutter must go” talk, do think Keenan has to go (this team looks poorly coached – maybe it is an organizational thing and it goes right to Sutter, but I’m not ready to go there yet).
I think this team with non-ridiculous long-term contracts to core players; however, Iggy and Dion had sub-par years and Kipper is on the slide, and that makes things look less rosy than they should. Really, the consensus at the beginning of the year was ‘lucky to make the playoffs’, and even with the big guns misfiring, they had a reasonably good year. I’d love to see them build a Chicago-like team, but getting Kane and Toews comes at a price of lousy hockey. I’d love to be Detroit, but there’s only one of those. Vancouver goes from division title to no playoffs and back and forth – is that better?
I don’t know…I know I was excited to see them play nearly every game this year, think they can be good next year, and am already looking forward to their off-season. So, it’s not all bad, is it?
Anyway, thanks everyone, I look forward to reading more of the post mortem thoughts and have enjoyed the blogs this year.
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