Game 2 - gamethread
by Kent Wilson on Apr 18, 2009 12:00 PM PDT
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PrintCalgary Flames at Chicago Blackhawks, Apr 18, 2009 6:00 PM PDT
Has the disappointment worn off yet? Or was I so able to suppress your hopes to such a degree that the loss seemed inevitable? Either way, I'm sure you'll be tuning in tonight...
Notes:
- Jean Lefebvre has jumped aboard the "break up Jokinen and Iginla" train. The question is, will Keenan? Apparently, Conroy was skating with Iginla in practice recently, so...maybe?
- In the latter link, you'll Sarich is scheduled to play this evening. Good news. Questions is: does Pardy get the boot for the beleaugered Anders Eriksson? According to the practice lines.........no! I know. Im stunned too. Course, we'll see if that persists into the evening.
- The forward units according the Inside the Flames this morning were:
Glencross - Conroy - Iginla
Cammalleri - Langkow - Bertuzzi
Bourque - Jokinen - Moss
Boyd - Lundmark - Nystrom
Can I get a hell yeah? I noted at the end of the previous post that the adjustments made by Keenan heading into tonight would say a lot about him as a coach (as well as the Flames chances to win this thing). Assuming these combos last longer than the first 4 shifts, I'm encouraged to say the least. Breaking up Moss and Glencross seems somewhat risky given their success as a third unit this year, but this way each of the top 3 units has players with strong board presence and an ability to move the puck the right way (Bourque, Glencross, Moss). This configuration should be especially beneficial for Jokinen, I think. And I'm hoping Conroy/Glencross is going to help wake up the slumbering Jarome.
Then there's Boyd back in the line-up. Now the 4th line can play more than 4 minutes.
Good stuff. If Calgary can replicate the effort they put forth in the first half of the first game, I like their chances of success a lot more than I did before the series started.
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Good lookin' lines!
That should help the Flames’ chances tonight. Iginla needs to step up though. I can’t help but wonder if he’s playing hurt.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I dont think so – unless he’s been playing hurt all season. This isn’t a new thing with Jarome this year.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 18, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
So the defacto top 4 is Phaneuf/Leopold and Pardy/Aucion. Damn I was hoping Sarich could take maybe Leopold’s spot, given I have more faith in his shutdown ability than any of the above 4.
Im sure Sarich will end up with tougher match-ups. whoever he pairs with.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 18, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I really like the look of that new first line, given that Glencross/Conroy/Moss have effectively been our first line all year (in terms of the line that is best at driving possession). WI at HTP did have it listed as the second line on her depth chart. Suffice to say, I agreed with that notion, but it stilll made me sad for reasons that have nothing to do with making sensible hockey decisions.
I think this new set-up is great. It’s basically playing chicken with Quenneville: does he send Havlat/Keith out against the Iginla’s line, allowing either one of the two other units to do damage? or does he seek other match-ups and risk freeing up Jarome?
Should be interesting.
by Kent Wilson on Apr 18, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Keys to the Game
1) Flames have to use speed to create puck control. For all the old tired cliches about the Flames being ‘physical’ and ‘experienced’, that has been questionable since 2004, and I’m not sure it was that true then either (that team had more talent than given credit for). The Flames didn’t win this year because they physically dominated other teams, they won when they used their depth to keep up relentless pressure, kept the puck away from their own D (and Kipper!) and forced the action. Goes without saying that was problem #1 with game 1 (in the 3rd period).
2) Move the puck quickly on the power play. They’re not going to score ringing it around the boards (because despite having the extra player, they seem to lose every puck battle!). They’re not going to score all standing mostly still, with maybe one person moving and waiting for open ice to magically appear. They need to generate shots – move the puck quickly 3 or 4 times and shoot. Get the PK and Khabby moving side to side. If the shot doesn’t work, win at least 1 of 3 puck battles and keep possession (I’m not asking for much). If it’s cleared, move QUICKLY back up the ice, and force the action. Minimum of 3 or 4 shots on every powerplay, please.
3) Don’t try to play puck control in your own end. I’ve never understand one part of the Flames Defensive philosophy, which is a lot of puck reversals behind the net, shake forecheck pressure by moving the puck side to side and backward until it can move forward. This may work a lot, but at least 5-10 times a game it leads to loss of possession and own-zone scrambling. If the team is moving forward and using their own speed, it’ll keep the Hawks on their heels no matter how much speed they also have.
4) Kipper goes from 5 big saves and 1 BAD goal to 6 big saves and 0 BAD goals! No explanation necessary.
5) Be relentless. This is the biggie, and the most frustrating thing about watching the Flames for the last 3 years. When they have those games, they’re a joy to watch and the bounces go their way. But it doesn’t happen enough. I hate the Canucks with all of my being, but besides having a goalie who is two goals better than Kipper, they are relentless. Their D are assholes, but they are relentless. Burrows/Kesler are satan’s lost sons, but they are relentless. I think it may be easier to be a Canuck’s fan, because they don’t seem to cheat you.
6) Play your game, don’t worry about the Hawk’s game. I firmly believe the Flames are better than the Hawks and will win this series, but they control their own fate. CONTROL it!
I can't tell you how many times I've been cheated
as a Canuck fan. I’ve got the looming sense that it’s all going to turn to shit at any minute.
Good news regarding the lineup. Boyd for Roy is one game late, of course, and Sarich is an upgrade if he’s even close to healthy. I don’t mind the mix on the top 9, either. I’d prefer Langkow with Iginla a bit over Conroy, but it’s better than the status quo, and they could play a hard match against good players and likely get by. That said, if those lines hold and Jokinen can’t hang in at 5v5 with Bourque and Moss, well, there really isn’t much hope for him.
i just said this over at flamesnation but i think here might provide a better commentary. please excuse the cut n’ paste.
while i certainly commend keenan et al. for FINALLY conceding that the iggy and olli combo was a failure (and acknowledging that jokinen should be sheltered by two defensively sound wingers), having a 5 million dollar centreman on your third line does not look good on a GM…
in saying that, i sincerely hope that the demotion makes the coach look like a genius…
Is Iggy tough to play with? I’m only asking because he rarely has regular linemates and we’ve been talking about him needing better linemates for more than just this year, haven’t we? I’m not putting this on Iggy (at least, not without looking to the sky for the lightning bolt first), but I’m just curious if anyone else has a comment?
i would have to say yes, or at least the expectation is too much to handle for most players… they brought tanguay in to play with iggy. they brought cammalleri in to play with iggy. they brought jokinen in to play with iggy. they brought conroy back to play with iggy… seems to never really work out.
Moreso, I’d say Iginla’s circumstances are tough. He faces shut-down defensemen, top notch checkers and/or heavy hitters on a nightly basis. If you can’t handle the tough going reasonably well, you probably can’t hang with Jarome.
I’d also argue that Tanguay did work out with Jarome – they regularly put up great numbers at ES when they were together. Keenan’s animosity towards Tanguay killed that though.
i’m not sure i buy this, actually. i think chemistry can trump competition; the sedins also see shutdown D and heavy hitters every night and have still made a career of scoring goals together…. :(
*sigh….
it’s too bad iggy doesn’t have a twin.
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Moreso, I’d say Iginla’s circumstances are tough. He faces shut-down defensemen, top notch checkers and/or heavy hitters on a nightly basis. If you can’t handle the tough going reasonably well, you probably can’t hang with Jarome.
I’d also argue that Tanguay did work out with Jarome – they regularly put up great numbers at ES when they were together. Keenan’s animosity towards Tanguay killed that though.
Cosign.
The few times he doesn’t see someone expressly interested in shutting him down, he’s out power vs. power against the Zetterbergs of the world. Iginla doesn’t get many free lunches. That said, I wonder if the purpose of giving him Conroy and Glencross isn’t so much to get him scoring, but to go head to head and not get overrun by Toews-Kane-Havlat w/ Keith and Seabrook. If the Flames can get that match and saw it off, the other lines might be deep enough to make this work. The best hope is that not seeing a steady diet of Keith and Seabrook frees Jokinen up . It’s not like Chicago’s other guys are stiffs, but there’s still a drop-off.
I think that’s exactly it, Rob. The Iggy/Conroy line would be, for lack of a better term, a diversion. It draws all the tough assignments, probably won’t be overwhelmed, and it frees up Jokinen, Moss, Cammalleri and Langkow to try to beat up their counterparts.
This may be true, but whatever the case and whatever the intention, I hope our shutdown line and top pairing go up against Iginla no matter who’s he skating with him. He’s one of the most dynamic players in the league, and keying on him defensively has to be priority #1. I’d rather do that and have Jokinen beat us, or Cammaleri …. because keying on either of them and having Iginla beat us would be inexcusable in my opinion. The last thing we need is to allow Jarome to wake up; if that happens, the trickle-down through the team would very different than simply if Olli were to wake up.
As well, expect three full periods like our half-game two nights ago; I doubt we come out as dopey and tentative. By contrast, I don’t expect Calgary to play only 2 periods of hockey this time either … should be a great game, wouldn’t surprise me if we saw another overtime …
… with the same result. Heh. G’luck.
is it just me or is it HILARIOUS that all keenan really did was swap iggy for moss, insert boyd and the lines look entirely different ??
Just when you thought his chance had passed ...
… Bert goes and saves the best for last.
Except for that after the first game in which he plays well and the Flames win, he’ll think he’s automatically the best player in the world and float for the next 15 games.
Do you figure Millions gets fired, Marty?
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Keenan with the classic first line reunion
by Dustin Timberlake on Apr 18, 2009 6:29 PM PDT reply actions
It doesnt look like they even wanna play hockey they just wanna hurt ppl
Oh man I am digging this game so far. They just seem so committed and while chicago is trying to match the intensity some players can others are going to get injured badly if they keep talking. What a game! They have to keep it going though. They need to keep it going though.
I love (and by love, I mean kinda don’t like at all) the fact that Bertuzzi is pushing his linemate back with his stick to backcheck harder, but is the last man to reach the D-zone himself. Comon man, set the example!
they didnt say what he said (likely because they cant). he was having words with camm and the bench since the start of hte game though
u know what annoys me. It happens all the time in the vancouver games. They boo every penalty (no matter how blatant it is) and boo every non call (no matter how stupid it is)
That better not happen in the saddle dome
i wonder how nycholat would’ve looked !!!!
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Sniping aside, he’s still better than Eriksson, no?
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
no one will ever agree with me but I actually didnt think he was that bad last game. he shouldnt have been playing that much. thats the real issue here.
i remember that bourque was friends with byfuglien. can’t remember who else.
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
He came into the league as a D-man, but they started putting him upfront last year, IIRC.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions
they totally are, actually. not in-game, i’m sure.
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Its weird I actually thought washington had enough fire power to go to the finals no matter their shitty goalie. Doesnt look like it. they wont get swept but Id take a bet they wont win
Washington’s getting some bad bounces (missed call on Avery in game 1, crossbar in the second). I think they’ll take this in 7.
really? Dont get me wrong I think NYR is the second worst team to make playoffs (2nd to Montreal) but lundqvuist will take them there
Anyone wonder if Iggy might have asked for the line changed to get away from jokinen? A suggestion perhaps like when he asked to play with useless over poontang last year?
Useless and Poontang?
Seriously man, make sure there isn’t anything breakable around wherever you’re watching the game. New levels!
speaking of him actually is anyone surprised useless has gone silent once again when the games mean the most for columbus? I almost forgot about that.
I’ve only watched on period of the CBJ-DET series but the entire Columbus team is being absolutely overmatched, in practically every aspect. Can’t scapegoat just Juice for that, I don’t think.
I’ve seen most of the 2 games. You’re spot on, RO. They can’t create anything, and their PK is brutal.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah. We talk about our bad luck (losing the division and drawing Chicago) but Columbus got bent over even more by losing the tiebreaker to St. Louis. If they’d maintained 6th place, they’d probably have split against Vancouver.
Maybe. Mason hasn’t quite looked like himself. A lot of it might be the pressure the Wings put on, but he gave up a terrible goal to Hudler tonight.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
A week off might have actually helped.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Now that’s how to line match….
no, wait.
And there’s Vandermeer trailing the play too. He’s been simply abysmal tonight.
I’m as hard as anyone on the guy, but his defence resembles a fire drill of the Asiatic variety at the moment.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions
This is typical Flames hockey against a good team. Play well for a while, get really pleased with themselves, stop putting in the right effort and making the smart plays. It’s the Darryl Sutter arrogance coming out.
Keys to the Game (revisited)
Forgot to mention not giving up big rebounds, although I thought that was self explanatory.
Defensive coverage has been really poor, Reggie for MVP!
I’m with Brent (can’t believe I just wrote that!) and don’t think it’s over…
Was just thinking the same thing about Regehr. Might be a different-looking game (and series) right now if he’s in. For one thing, he would have been out there for the first shift of overtime in Game 1, I’m guessing. For another, well, he steadies the whole defence. And Eriksson/Vandermeer wouldn’t even be playing.
Yup. Completely unforgiveable. Look at the guy on the other end of the ice. No 10-15 feet rebounds from him.
True. When he was good, the puck hit him and stuck. No more.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Has anyone noticed Jokinen at all this game? He’s gone from being apparent for being useless on the first line to just plain invisible.
Fair enough. But he’s the 2nd highest paid forward on this club. And he cost a shit-load of assests.
Whole 3rd line has been invisible, other than Bourque pissing off the Chicago announcers with a couple nice hits…
Not surprisingly, the first line is flexing its muscle. And the first line contains 2/3rds of our first line.
Not sure what number the lines are, other than our 4th line which Keenan loves putting on after icings for some reason…
I said upthread if he couldn’t go 5v5 with Bourque and Moss, there was no hope. There’s no hope.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Flames weren’t even generating pressure enough to bother with crease play. The Hawks are cutting down gaps in the neutral zone really well and with the Flames unable to make two consecutive tape-to-tape passes, it killed their attack. The rare times they got close to the net, they flubbed it.
Looking back on that period again now, it was exactly the same thing as last night: Flames come out hard, in the first, hit guys, play sharp, then do nothing of the short in the second. I know “inconsistent” is the most overused word in hockey, but what’s the reason for this? Can they not maintain that level of intensity for longer than 20 minutes? Do they not realize it’s changing?
Almost. There’s colour photographic evidence of the Flames winning a Cup.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah. In fairness, their 4th line gets to play against the Flames’ D.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
the flames aren’t as good as the hawks, is my guess.
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
you are a bigger man than most nucks fans, temujin….
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d almost take Mike LeClerc right now.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I joined Matchsticks and Gasoline just to rec this post.
But it’s not letting me rec it for some reason.
NOW STOP IT RIGHT HERE
Flames can’t get anything going. Zero pressure, zero chances. Nothing. Hawks are just all over them.
Flames look to me like the 2nd best team on the ice here. They’re working hard, but you can see they’re not sure what to do.
i would almost say they’re the third best team. the zebras skate better, mostly.
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Phaneuf has 1 assist, +1, 25 minutes, 5 shots? Last night he was good as well. Where was this Phaneuf during the regular season?
Getting paid. Isn’t it that players don’t get paid in the playoffs. Now there’s no “big salary” to distract him :)
also, he doesn’t have to worry about elisha now that she’s proven she can take care of herself….
http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2009/04/17/elisha_cuthbert_dodged_death_in_car_cras
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, and our first period dominance nicely correlates with the presence of regular Sarich shifts. Just sayin.
That end-zone camera just showed a lot. In the first, Flames were performing organized breakouts, supporting the puck, etc. Now? Here’s-hoping passes through checks and into traffic.
good adjustements by quenneville, let’s call a spade a spade.
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
fair enough but a good coach would settle his guys, point out what’s happening, and manage that shit
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions
C’mon, this is Keenan, he knows that Stephane Matteau is going to score in the last couple of seconds to send this to OT
this is why i was making the coughing up the puck joke. except jokes are supposed to be funny. i know jokinen is.
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Keenan right now
OK, here’s what we’re gonna do: Todd, you’re going to get the puck, do a spinarama pass into open ice and, if the Hawks accidentally shoot on their own net, Olli, you’re going to fire it right into Khabibulin’s pads. Let’s go to it!
How must Langkow feel not being on the ice at the end of games? He’s the only player who’s any good.
It’ll be interesting to see who gets the blame for this in the off-season. I wonder if Sutter’s leash has finally run out.
They’ll blame injuries. Delusion runs pretty deep in the organization, methinks.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Well folks, I think that’s that in this series. I heard today that teams who go down 2-0 lose the series 90% of the time.
Methinks you’re correct. And guilty as charged.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions
If they were getting stoned by Khabby, I might wait for the luck to turn, but they’re just shitty.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Does anyone remember a long time ago when I was saying how I hate trade deadline deals? The big ones? You over pay, disrupt the team among other things. Their stupid and I loved Sutter for avoiding them cause hte players never lived up.
I thought that before this game, but Calgary got utterly dominated after the first period. It wasn’t even close. Looked like men against boys.
This evening convinced me Calgary is very obviously not in CHI league.
Bertuzzi hasn’t been horrible, but I’d hate to play with him, you never know what he’s going to do. That pass at the end was classic Bert, try a backhand pass blindly to the front of the net, when noone is near you and three teammates are behind the goal line!
Agreed – on the Chicago telecast, they were chatting with a minute left and looked like they were laughing…must be nice to be that good and that sure you’re good…
How’s that go: “Ain’t braggin’ if you can back it up”?
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Woulda. Shoulda. Coulda. Flames are spending 24M on their blueline. If missing one guy means that much, they’re doing it wrong.
Possibly 2-0. Regehr would have covered Havlat (and likely not gotten schooled) and he certainly would have made a huge difference tonight.
I really wish I could believe that, but they were 0-4 in the regular season and he played in all the games. Chicago just looks better. They’re good and a terrible match up for Calgary.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope this quiets all this stupid talk about experience meaning anything in the post-season as well.
And big bodies and all the other BS. If you’re good, you’re good. The end.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I dont remember who said it above but I agree, Im gonna be optimistic and believe they will win until they dont. Its unpredictable and they showed they can get the lead htey just need to learn how to keep it. A lot of key players were bad tonihgt (ie Moss, Leo, Jokinen).
Regardless I think they can! I know they have the ability they need to find the will.
Cats and dogs, playing together, etc, etc.
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions
1. i think “injuries” is a terrible excuse for losing. most of our injured players are defensemen, which doesn’t explain why we’re not scoring. if we were getting blown out every night, i’d accept that. but we’re losing one-goal games.
2. my only relieving thought is this: thank god i’m not a caps fan. they probably thought they had an actual shot at getting out of the first round…. at least for us we’re just getting what we expected (even if we’d hoped for more)
I’d be more optimistic as a Caps fan. They’ve played well, just gotten zero bounces. Tonight, the Flames were legitimately outplayed.
yes but this is my point. to be down 2-0 and be playing well would suck more than getting schooled, methinks. ;)
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Suppose so, but if the Flames had played as well as Washington, there’d be hope. You feeling any about the Flames?
by Robert Cleave on Apr 18, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Caps still have a better chance than us at least. Goddamn.
Oh well. It takes the sting out of Green taking big steps ahead of Phaneuf, at least. Amirite/
(and if our entire playoff hopes are pinned on regehr, we’ve got way more problems than we thought)
by walkinvisible on Apr 18, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I saw a humongous effort from him late in the third, battling fiercely at the Chicago blue line to keep the puck in. I think he was going 1v2 at the blueline. He did it, Bertuzzi got the puck with some space and I thought “this is it – this is Calgary’s best chance to score – thank God Phaneuf decided to play tonight”. And then Bert completely flubbed the chance.
There was a play where he was skating down the Wing into the Hawks zone late in the period. The CHI player from behind him caught up and, with one hand on his stick, poked the puck away from Iginla, completely defusing the rush. I swore out loud. It was such a soft play by the Captain at that portion of the game. I almost couldn’t believe it.
Yeah, I remember that play exactly, and thought the swear rather than said it. There’s a reason we talk/type like the Flames are beating themselves sted of the Hawks just beating the Flames.
Yeah, it’d be one thing if the Hawks were just plain overpowering the Flames the way Detroit is doing to Columbus, but so many of our failings this game seemed… unnecessary? unforced? I realize it’s impossible to separate whether the other team is playing well or if you’re playing bad but tonight I thought it was a good measure of the former but much much more of the latter.
Wow, Monday I get the Versus guys…moving up in the world! And Wednesday too!
Of course, no word on Friday…
Goodnight All…I’ll be back to join everyone in more teeth-gnashing tomorrow and Monday (it’s always fun when my wife laughs at me and my virtual world)!.
400+ comments tonight – great turnout eh Kent?
Thanks for hosting the dicussion – I’m outta here too. Gotta take a break from the Flames.
I can't believe the comments at the St Louis Game Time blog
Nucks Misconduct got around 450 for game two, but those Blues bloggers are animals.
I’ll be sure to chime in for Chi-Cal game 3. I held my tongue tonight out of shock but if the Flames shit the bed again, all bets are off.
Kent, you have a good thing going here. I wonder if you have given any thought to shutting fown Five Hole Fanatics and just posting exclusively here?
As an ending to this...
Did anyone here notice that Chicago went 4-0 today?
Sox, Bulls, Cubs, and Hawks.
Nice.
by burpchelischili on Apr 18, 2009 9:30 PM PDT reply actions
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