Flames acquire Olli Jokinen
by Kent Wilson on Mar 4, 2009 10:01 AM PST
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TSN is reporting the Flames have dealt Matthew Lombardi, Brandon Prust and a first round draft pick to the Phoenix Coyotes for Keenan favorite, Olli Jokinen.
At first blush, I don't like this move for Calgary. Firstly, because I think the team needed to add to their forward depth (rather than swap one for two). Secondly, because I don't think Jokinen brings value for his relatively steep 5M+ contract (whereas Lombardi was outperforming his 1.8M deal) and thirdly, I hate giving up Lombo AND a first round draft pick for this guy.
Here's Jokinen's underlying ES stats. They are underwhelming this year (and were in Florida last season as well). Jokinen brings size up the middle and is a good PP trigger man, but he's never been much at 5on5. Here's hoping Keenan can coax more out of him.
The writing has kinda been on the wall for Lombardi all year. The Flames have a lot of organizational depth down the middle and Lombo wasn't good enough to usurp Langkow, but WAS good enough to seem attractive to other teams. He's been a favorite of mine for a long time and has actually been playing pretty damn well for the 2nd half of this season. His underlying stats are fairly strong and he should make a good addition to the Coyotes. The Flames gain a stronger PP player in Jokinen here, but lose a decent ES and PKer on a more attractive contract.
As for Prust - meh. I've never been that high on him as a prospect, so his loss doesn't effect me one way or the other. In fact, I'm kind of happy because this makes some room in the organization for guys like Backlund, Van Der Gulik, etc.
Overall, I'm ambivalent bordering on dissatisfied. But we'll see how this plays out on the ice...
Edited to add - Flames apparently received a PHX third rounder in return as well.
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And Calgary gets to pick the year that the first rounder goes to Phoenix (either 2009 or 2010)
by Robert Cleave on Mar 4, 2009 10:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Damn, I don’t like this kind of trade generally, seems like way to much risk for not great reward…I wish I had a better feeling about Olli than I do.
by maimster on Mar 4, 2009 10:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Me too. I watched Jokinen closely in Florida during his last season there and he didn’t impress me at all. That said, he played really, really well under Kenna previously so…
by Kent Wilson on Mar 4, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Olli had a BAD season last year in FLA. He was already in a slump when the Zednik thing went down, then he was done offensively.
Should be a good move for him and the Flames under Keenan.
by Donny Rivette on Mar 4, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny thing is, I wrote a deadline piece for the Score.com and specifically mentioned both Jokinen and Leopold. Take that Eklund!
by Kent Wilson on Mar 4, 2009 10:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
i don’t like it right now. i might like it more by end of day, but i might like it less.
my crude mathematics point to us being short a roster player and a first rounder, and about 2 million over the cap. we’re looking at another deal, i’m thinking one expensive guy from calgary (i’d say aucoin, but with the NTC it’s more likely sarich ??) and a prospect for two cheap roster guys. not pretty.
by walkinvisible on Mar 4, 2009 10:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Matt was mentioning the cap previously. The Flames must be over it right now.
by Kent Wilson on Mar 4, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This also guarantees the Flames won’t be re-signing Cammalleri I’d say.
by Kent Wilson on Mar 4, 2009 10:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Or they’ll have get a very cheap defenceman in the Aucoin spot. Giordano for Aucoin is worth about 3 extra million.
by Robert Cleave on Mar 4, 2009 10:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I don’t believe they’re going to want Cammy next year at the salary he’ll now command, so I’m OK with this going forward.
by maimster on Mar 4, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Injuries = Cap Relief
just 1/5th of contracts remain… with Bert, Bourque and Primeau and Langkow out that’s more cap room with each passing game.
"It's a great day for hockey" - BBJ
by jealous broadcaster on Mar 4, 2009 10:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I kinda figured that’s where the extra relief might be coming from. Everyone on the LTIR train now!
by Kent Wilson on Mar 4, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think Langkow and Bert qualify, but Bourque, Gio and Primeau will.
by Kent Wilson on Mar 4, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
bourque + gio + primeau /5 = < 2 mil
by walkinvisible on Mar 4, 2009 10:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Primeau has been out most of the year though.
by Resolute on Mar 4, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
3rd rounder = almost 2nd rounder
Phoenix sits in 25th (6th pick), this is an early 3rd rounder… and could get earlier.
how sick are the top 9 forwards??
Cammo Jokinen Iggy
Bertuzzi Langkow Bourque
GlenX Conroy Moss
(or some such amalgamation)
not all healthy but this is a deep group come April should they take their medicine.
Back end looks good too!
"It's a great day for hockey" - BBJ
by jealous broadcaster on Mar 4, 2009 10:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Love this deal but I’m really sad to see Lombardi go he needs a fresh start and hopefully he can get in the desert as for Olli coming to Calgary love it works well with Mike Keenan and I think all he needed was a team that has there head on and is a legit contender for the Cup.
by CofRed on Mar 4, 2009 10:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Overall, I’m ambivalent bordering on dissatisfied. But we’ll see how this plays out on the ice…
Overall, I’m dissatisfied bordering on despondent. But we’ll see how this plays out on the ice and in the summer…
by MattF on Mar 4, 2009 11:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
defense?
is it just me or should the flames have added some solid blueliners to help out kipper? they are already on track for 5 possible 6 20+ goal scores… i dont think offensive scoring is the issue…. wtf?
by ptolaini on Mar 4, 2009 11:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Flames added Leopold today and now have 8 NHL caliber defensemen on their roster spread between the NHL and AHL.
by Kent Wilson on Mar 4, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kent: I don’t blame you for not being to keen on Jokinen.
by Sean Zandberg on Mar 4, 2009 11:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Power at Forward
Ok, so something I have just been thinking about is. Over the last 6-8 years, the time when we can say Iggy rose to become one of the best power forwards in the game, who were the other 3 forwards he was always compared along side during the same period? I remember: Forsberg with Col., Bertuzzi with Van. (barf) and Jokenin with Fla. Foppa may never be back, but it appears to me that the Flames have just aquired all of that list minus Forsberg. This doesn’t mean anything cause I still get nervous when Bert is on the ice, and I don’t have the best feeling about Jokinen BUT…If they PLAY well, we could be OFF to the races!
by LawrenceS on Mar 4, 2009 11:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
This is one of those high risk-high reward deals. If we lose out in the first round again, it will end up a disaster. Go on a big run with Jokinen playing a role, and it will turn out well.
I liked Prust, but his departure isn’t a huge issue. Loved Lombardi’s speed, but we basically dealt a third line pk specialist for a first line offensive specialist. Great deal for Phoenix though. Exactly what a rebuilding team needed.
by Resolute on Mar 4, 2009 11:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
liked the leopold deal, dont like this one
by shep_ on Mar 4, 2009 11:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The thing im more concerned is what does this do to the team mentality? No doubt they know the expectations now but this had to upset some of hte players; sportsnet is reporting as such. They were saying both Camm and Lombardi (obviously) arent very happy at the moment. Hopefully this all works out well. I didnt like the deal at first but I do like it more now. They are a better team for having done this and I think can be considered up there with the top tier of teams. If Jokinen works out they have a nuts line up.
I think both trades instantly made the team better. I was talking with a buddy who was saying Sutter admitted he prolly couldnt resign Cammalleri anyways so this is a good way of replacing him preemptively.
by Brent G. on Mar 4, 2009 11:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
oh man … Upshall and a 2nd to Phoenix for Carcillo. Upshall didnt even cost anything really. Why wouldnt sutter of gone after him instead of Jokinen…
by Brent G. on Mar 4, 2009 11:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Probably because Upshall isn’t half the player Jokinen is.
by Resolute on Mar 4, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no im not saying he is but couldnt u say Lombardi and Upshall are at least equivalent? They bring different aspects to the table for sure but they coulda had Upshall and Lombardi and a first.
What i am saying I guess is I dont think they needed Jokinen. Even if sutter was pretty sure Cammalleri was gone at the end of the season, he surely is now. What the Flames needed was more depth scoring. A young fast hard hitting Alberta boy fits the whole mantra of the team too. Upshall was the correct choice for sutter. That being said at least sutter covered his ass on Camm.
by Brent G. on Mar 4, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That being said, I know Jokinen will make me love him (surely in the more heterosexual way possible lol) once he plays with the team for a while. If they win the cup this year (better odds now) and are terrible next year… so what? I want a cup not an annual playoff contender.
by Brent G. on Mar 4, 2009 12:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t like the Jokinen deal. But it does have a lot of potential for this season. If Jokinen can come in and produce a point per game on the top line, that’s a very big deal. (And he better be playing on the top line!)
I have no idea if we’re better off for next year, but at least we’re less confused for next year. Cammy won’t be resigned, and Jokinen will be the intended linemate for Iggy.
Picking up Leopold is all good. If we can sign him for next year, even better. He could prove to be a very good value for us.
by ngthagg on Mar 4, 2009 1:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Let’s label the Jokinen move “high risk, high reward” at this point.
by Kent Wilson on Mar 4, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t know if we should be talking about re-signing leopold, at this point. infact, i’m thinking that (if the cap goes down), we will HAVE to be promoting some of the prospects. the 09/10 blueline is already regehr, phaneuf, sarich, vandy, gio, pardy so i think a palin or a negrin or an aulie makes FAR more sense than trying to re-sign another vet that will cost in the millions.
ESPECIALLY when you add a jokinen contract to the top end.
by walkinvisible on Mar 4, 2009 2:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It all depends on how much Leopold wants.
by Kent Wilson on Mar 4, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True. Whatever breathing room we would have gained by saying goodbye to Aucoin is gone now. If we could dump Vandermeer and resign Leopold, however . . . I think we’d all be happy with that.
by ngthagg on Mar 4, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My younger sister is devestated at losing Lombardi, and she still hasn’t fully recovered from the loss of Ference and Kobasew. Clearly, the pretty ones get traded first.
If only Bertuzzi weren’t so damn ugly.
by ngthagg on Mar 4, 2009 2:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
obviously….
seriously, if backlund wasn’t sutter’s pet project, i’d be superconcerned for this exact reason. he’s a swede and he’s got forsberg eyes…. ;)
by walkinvisible on Mar 4, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't sleep. Alien will eat me...
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Five For Howling
by Travis Hair on Mar 4, 2009 8:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
haha…the Flames may or may not have gotten better today, but they certainly got UGLIER
by Kent Wilson on Mar 4, 2009 2:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
OK, that’s the best summary of the day’s action, and brings a smile to my otherwise nervous face…
I can’t wait for the game tomorrow night!!
by maimster on Mar 4, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can anyone explain . . .
where Jokinen’s injury prone rep comes from? As far as I can tell, he’s missed 13 games over the last 9 seasons. Lombardi missed 13 games this season alone.
by ngthagg on Mar 5, 2009 6:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t know he had such a reputation.
The one Im hearing these days is “problematic attitude” and “cancer”. I dont think that bothers me much though.
by Kent Wilson on Mar 5, 2009 7:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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