Flames At Stars Gamethread
by Kent Wilson on Nov 4, 2009 5:00 PM PST
266 comments
Calgary Flames at Dallas Stars, Nov 4, 2009 5:30 PM PST
Lot's of down time recently, so questions about the team have been left hanging over everyone's heads. Through the first month there's things to like and dislike about the club but we're probably still not all that close to knowing precisely what we have this year. One thing we can probably say for certain is: choosing Jokinen over Cammalleri was a mistake.
Calgary rolls into Dallas, who is suddenly healthy. This isn't a team I fear anymore and I think that Modano and Lehtinen are lesser additions to the roster relative to a few years ago, but...Calgary can't afford to take anyone lightly given the quality of their play lately (outside of a few bright spots that is). On top of all that, beleaguered back-up Curtis McElhinney will get a chance to redeem the game 5 loss this evening. I've been slow to indict the youngster on the strength of so few starts (and such crappy support) but the truth of the matter is he'll have to put together better than average performances going forward in order to preserve his place in the line-up. Maybe he'll start tonight.
Let the swearing begin!
0 recs |
266 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
He’ll likely do as much good as Pedro just did against Matsui.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 5:35 PM PST up reply actions
Hey Kent, sorry for not responding to you earlier, but it was going to be a game-time decision watching this game.
Fortunately I am going to be able to watch. So I’m going to give the Jarome-watching the old college try. Although full disclosure, I get distracted sometimes and I’m also going to keep an eye on who matches up vs. Richards.
No problem. Bob already volunteered, although if both you guys want to do it and then compare notes, that could work too.
I’m good either way. If you want to take a swing at it, R O, feel free.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 5:38 PM PST up reply actions
If you’re going to watch Jarmoe, I can focus on Richards. That matchup is key imo.
Betcha it’s a mixture of Langkow and Iginla units. Dallas is at home after all.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
connie + stick infraction ??? noooooo….
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
Lack of offensive support doesn’t excuse McE’s poor goaltending. He has to make some saves early and give his team a chance to believe in him. More importantly, he can’t kill momentum like he did the firt game against Dallas.
Interesting to see if this team means it for once when they talk about needing to be better.
by Resolute on Nov 4, 2009 5:45 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Flames kinda look like they’re stuck in pre-season. A lot of “You got it? Me? You? Who’s going to get it?” around loose pucks.
Oui. You should work for TSN. Just yell a bunch of nonsense and you should be good.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 5:57 PM PST up reply actions
Yell a bunch of nonsense in your audition, that is. You can be normal when you get the job ;-)
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
Chances were 10-3 in favor of Dallas, including 7 straight. Of course, those numbers are skewed by all the PP time.
At least 6 on the PP I bet. Dallas is holding a slight edge at EV imo, but not that much of an edge.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
he said he was “battling hard” but he wouldn’t say who with.
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
Well I thought McElhinney had himself a good period, which is nice. Not sure there was much else to recommend.
I dunno Kent, he got saved by the D I think. A ton of soft rebounds into the outer crease area and those go in bang-bang if the D didn’t subdue the forwards.
And his save recovery is worse than Kipper. Yikes.
But he saved all the shots. +1!
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
OK so Richards seems to have against a mishmash of our guys. Iginla for a couple shift, boyd for a couple shifts, and then Langkow. This all a bit fuzzy but that’s what I saw.
And not a single one of them held traction against Richards. Not one.
The defencemen 1-4 were all outstanding though, and they had to be. I suppose that’s what happens when you pay for them, they are all good. But the forwards have to help, they have to bring the puck into the Dallas zone.
Hey, Does Bouwmeester have the “A” on his sweater? Not sure he’s much of a leader, seems like he’s a bit reserved for the job.
Good period minus all the penalties. McBackup looks… better? Is it my imagination or does he seem to give up huge rebounds. And will someone please punch Steve Ott in the face… got dang I hate Steve Ott.
i think he looks better. probably because the D isn’t too tired (like in the usual 2nd game of a b2b) to clear his rebounds…. anyone hear much about kipps not feeling well…. ?
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
Sutter just said he had a bit of a bug, without much else. I guess he went to the rink for the pregame and headed right back to the hotel.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
Kipper was good enough to dress, but I’d guess if Irving was easily available, Kipper would have stayed at the hotel.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
9 shifts for Iginla, but 1 was for 1 second. In his 8 real shifts, 2 were on the PP. With all the penalties, he basically didn’t play the last five minutes. He was out against the 4th line twice, and his line went nowhere either time. His only really noticeable shift was the first PP, with the hit on Robidas and the shot from the middle that Robidas blocked. Tough for someone to get any traction in that kind of period when you’re a guy who doesn’t PK .
or better, since when does gio play more PK mins than dion ??
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
(not that this is bad or anything buuut….)
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
Sitting here watching the Hitmen be everything the Flames should be. Hard skating, hard checking and miserable to play against. The Flames need to take in a junior game to see how it is done.
by Resolute on Nov 4, 2009 6:27 PM PST via mobile reply actions
maybe they should hire the hitmen coach.
uh.
wait….. ;)
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
I thought you were supposed to be down there. Enjoy things tomorrow.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 6:29 PM PST up reply actions
i’m SILLY excited… :) hopin’ for a win. my buddy jason’s got a SWEEEET blues third jersey with berglund on the back….. i’m gonna jersey him in the concourse
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 6:31 PM PST up reply actions
awm: jay got your $$, btw…. thanks !!! did you get the book ?
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 6:42 PM PST up reply actions
every once in a while he comes up up with one of those – and then nice hustle on the backcheck at the other end
by Calgarian in SJ on Nov 4, 2009 6:47 PM PST up reply actions
Saw that penalty shot. Nice save. How the hell do you give up a breakaway on the pk anyway?
by Resolute on Nov 4, 2009 6:51 PM PST via mobile reply actions
A very short breakaway. It’s definitely call-able as a PS but I’ve seen it not called a PS before.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 6:52 PM PST up reply actions
i’m totally in. except it’s pretty effin’ long for a nickname….. ;)
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
Cause I prefer “Mc-L-Hinney”?
Sounds like he has been good tonight though.
by Resolute on Nov 4, 2009 6:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
mcbackup, cumac, backelhinney. the latter is the best, methinks.
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
16-9 at EV. Still killing, but the PPs aren’t helping.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 6:57 PM PST up reply actions
Pierre is completely right. He was watching on the Dallas forecheck and floated into the middle even before that play around the net.
Sure. Whatever line he’s on is getting kicked at EV, though. Corsi for the team is going to end up around -4 after two, and Iggy is -9, worst by a mile.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
Mostly a function of icetime I think. By my eye Iggy’s getting doubeshifted, NHL TOI tables confirm he’s played 11 of a possible 27 EV minutes
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
See this is where we can categorically disprove the notion that Sutter is bringing “structure” to the Flames. Iggy’s the weakside winger there, and he anticipated the puck battle would be won by Calgary and moved appropriately.
I mean that was a horrible guess (that was Dallas’ first line I believe, so they’re good) but if Sutter was implementing “structure” then that decision is not even in Iginla’s hands. That’s the sensible approach anyway (wingers should be able to adapt).
I think the trumpeters of the Flames “structure” don’t know what they even mean by that.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
anyone find it interesting that iggy scores on the first shift he plays with conroy and not jokinen ?
i could be wrong but that’s what it looked like from st.lou. ;)
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 7:00 PM PST up reply actions
I wish these douchebags would talk about EV shots. It’s basic hockey knowledge that PPs affect shot volume.
They also affect fatigue. Overall shot totals have value too.
by Resolute on Nov 4, 2009 7:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
What do you expect ….. it’s MCGUIRE!!!
by Calgarian in SJ on Nov 4, 2009 7:03 PM PST up reply actions
corsi through 2. Iginla just getting his ass handed to him, despite the kudos the panel is currently raining on him.
Safe to say Modano, Benn and Ott are on a line, and playing terrible?
by Resolute on Nov 4, 2009 7:16 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Iggy through 2: 18 shifts, 1 goal,. He had one decent forechecking shift early with Joker-Nystrom. The shift after the goal, he was on the wrong side of his guy down low again, in almost the same spot where he was before his goal. He still seems soft on the puck when he isn’t shooting. -9 Corsi. Double shifted or no, he’s getting a tongue bath despite his actual play.
Oh, and Jokinen, oy vey. He looks terribly awkward when he’s taking the puck up ice, like it’s a SuperBall on his stick.
Hey Kent, did you catch this article on TSN from Scott Cullen? http://tsn.ca/blogs/scott_cullen/?id=297105 ?
Mentions how Jokinen and Iginla have faced some of the most high level competition. Also mentions Boyd facing some of the lowest.
I only bring this up as you and a few others have mentioned on a number of occasions how Iggy and Jokinen have been in the most favorable conditions and still not producing.
I admit I have no idea what the corsi values measure compared to what he does (or behindthenet.ca)
I haven’t been able to see a full game besides the occasional HNIC (I live on the other side of the world and it is morning time for me at work during most games) so I can’t really comment on his actual play but wondering why the opinions are either that he is still very good to being terrible.
Jokinen is trying to defend, but he has absolutely no anticipation. Just chasing around the man with the puck, getting rope-a-doped instead of finding the open man behind the net.
Piece of fucking dirt shit.
i think i’d rather mcgrattan and prust.
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 7:28 PM PST up reply actions
What did Sjostrom do to deserve that suggestion?
by Resolute on Nov 4, 2009 7:30 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
we will not recover from that goal. mail in the rest of the game. rest the guys who will do wll tomorrow.
jaybouw looks rough tonight.
Y’think? I’m liking his game, very patient with incoming attackers.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 7:34 PM PST up reply actions
i just saw him in front of the net on both goals. i realize now the second was not his fault. still not sure about the first.
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
No idea what the Flames are doing on that play. They allowed Richards time and space with the puck, even though there was ample players around to get after him.
Yeah, multiple things there. Sarich might have had a chance to cut that off in the neutral zone, but he backed off a bit.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
Looked like a 2 on 1 eh? Poor Bouwmeester, he had to play it like that.
On the replay, you see him react away from taking Ricahrds to taking the pass once he realized Eriksson was uncovered? Sublime intelligence on that play, even though it ended up in the nets.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
yeah one. 55 seconds. 1st period. zero stats.
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
i’m starting to get super annoyed with the coaching staff.
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
also i would really rather never watch olli jokinen play another game in the flaming C. can we leave him in dallas ference-styles ?
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
“The Flames are competing. The shot total might not flatter them, but Gord, they’re competing!”
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
looks like sutter might FINALLY have it figured out.
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
SERIOUSLY !!!! was jokinen on the ice ?!?!?
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
We have something really rare here folks: a collection of good NHL forwards. It’s really disappointing that Jokinen is being given chances to do what so many others in the rsoter can do better. That 6-on-5 shift nonwithstanding, Jokinen has still been given plenty of opportunities in this game. Sad.
Wow.
We owe the Hockey Gods big after this game.
Good for Curtis though. He, at least, deserved the win. Nice to see some vintage Iggy goals, even if he struggled elsewhere as well.
Iggy had a lovely shift near the end of the third, not sure against who though. But he started deep in his own zone (long after Jokinen had left) and then safely carried the puck through the neutral zone, deep in to Dallas territory. There was a scoraing chance in there, I think Nystrom on the ice? I don’t know if you remember this shift.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
did this earlier in hopes of a win from BackElhinney
by awildermode on Nov 4, 2009 7:58 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
HAHAHAHAHAHA !!!
did you get the effin’ book yet or WHAT ?!?! we got the cheque. thx !!!
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 8:02 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve the credit … it’s the all-out love affair that makes little Pierre so hard to stomach
by Calgarian in SJ on Nov 4, 2009 8:01 PM PST up reply actions
He deserved it, he truly did. I was watching him and wondering how he was making the saves he was making, so awkward that young Curtis. But Results Matter and he was the difference tonight. Damn.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 8:04 PM PST up reply actions
Iggy: 28 shifts 2 G, 1 A . 22:31 TOI, 18:16 EV. 9 attempted shots, 2 SOG. Corsi -10. He had a few decent shifts, but it still didn’t seem like it was all there…
Until he went out with 22 and 17. Then he seemed pretty good. You know, he’s played two shifts in two games with those two guys. The first was the good shift against Detroit at the end of the second on Saturday. The second was the end of the game tonight. Small sample size, but it just looks right. It could put Joker in a bad spot, but I’m pretty sure I’ve quit caring if he plays well.
I have no idea why this hasn’t happened yet. It just makes so much sense.
Iggy +3 and -9 in terms of scoring chances tonight. Yiiiiikkkes.
It could put Joker in a bad spot, but I’m pretty sure I’ve quit caring if he plays well.
Well said — not because it wouldn’t be nice, but because it no longer makes sense to wait for it.
I watched the whole game away from the computer tonight. I had an idea that Iginla was probably in the red when it came to shots and chances, but there was a lot to like. I truly didn’t know that he could, or would, still lay a hit like he did on Robidas in the 1st. And notwithstanding the preceding mistake, that 1st goal was vintage.
Jokinen, on the other hand, just does not make anything happen. My God, how often did the play die with him tonight. And he just never, ever, gets in the way of the puck when the other guys are trying to do something with it.
The comment I made on the Herald’s live chat today was something like, “The only thing Jokinen and Iginla have in common is that neither are playing as well as we’d like.” Jarome Iginla has, in his career, been the best skater in the league. He’s the best player in Flames history. One of the longest serving captains in the league. There has never been a time, in the career of either, when Jokinen was in the same quality tier as Iginla.
If Iginla turns into Roenick-with-the-Sharks by the end of 2010, it’ll be disappointing, but dude doesn’t owe Flames fans a thing. I hereby commit to never lumping 12 and 21 together in any discussion on any topic, and urge every other Flames fan to do the same. :)
by MattF on Nov 4, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Matt, what pisses me off most about the whole deal is that I still think he could have a nice dotage as a really useful player if the team just admitted that he can’t carry crap players by himself any more. That’s no sin at all. 22 and 17 would make his life a hell of a lot easier if he’s still going to see the other outfit’s best.
The only useful thing Olli Jokinen is doing is defending a nice salary slot for July 1, 2010.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
Well said again. And fortunately, there are a number of levels between Iginla’s ~prime and Roenick/Recchi at the end.
So, time to extend Bourque, before he locks in a season with hella counting numbers, or is it a better idea to roll the dice and wait until June, expecting that he remains fairly effective but won’t put up the points?
Yeah Iginla-Lanks-Bourque makes seven kinds of sense. Admittedly all the difference makers are in one basket, but Glencross-Conroy-Moss is one fine second-tough-minutes line.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 8:16 PM PST up reply actions
or substitute boyd if he’s okay with the minutes….
by walkinvisible on Nov 4, 2009 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, an extended audition by young Boyd centering Glencross and Moss would make me happy too (unless the team starts losing). That may be what the depth chart requires next year if Conroy retires.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
If teams are mostly going PvP, there’s less of a worry about spreading things out. I’m a hell of a lot less concerned about how Calgary’s foot soldiers match up. Those guys will be OK. The team needs a first group that can be counted on to drive results. 22-17-12 is the best bet.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 8:23 PM PST up reply actions
Damn, you wonder where this team woud be with Tanguay. Non-sensical move by both parties. Especially Tanguay imo – the difference maker who doesn’t want to be a difference maker, I mean what is that?
I do have a point here – swap Tanguay for Jokinen and this team is eight kinds of better.
About Tanguay, Kent: wasn’t his beef with Keenan regarding his role as a checker with Conroy and Nolan? That role made so much sense for him I think. And he did get primo time with Iginla when Keenan saw fit to go PVP. Either way, he was doing heavy lifting and helping the team win, surely he knew that.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
Word was, Keenan beat him up behind closed doors. Tanguay was miserable here and not just because he was put in a checking role.
I agree with you though. That simply swap and the team is probably a lot better.
Like physically beat him up? Or verbally?
Because if it was the latter… well Keenan is a douche for doing that. But Tanguay’s a big boy too.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
Undeserved verbal abuse is still no way to run a railroad, R O. Employees of any sort know when one of their own is being targeted for the wrong reason. Even if you expect him to nut up a bit, Tanguay had a legit beef.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 8:33 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough. I suppose I just miss having a difference maker slot in at that salary level.
by R O on Nov 4, 2009 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
You and me and a few other people around here, too. I’d still like to see if they can sneak him out of Tampa at the deadline if the ’Ning are missing the playoffs.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 8:39 PM PST up reply actions
The funny thing is, he’d make Jokinen better, too. Smart, good passer, doesn’t need to score to feed his ego, knows his way around his own end. Joker still wouldn’t be that good, but he’d be better, mostly because he’d get some chances to score.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 4, 2009 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
tanguay
We could have had him in the off season if we wanted him and he wanted to come here. I doubt if he refused to sign here, that Das will be trading for him.
by CalTach on Nov 5, 2009 5:40 AM PST via mobile reply actions
There isn’t any evidence he “refused” to sign here. As a fan, I obviously like it when a player takes a discount to help the Flames, but Tanguay would have had to sign for around a million dollars a year to play in Calgary. He’s a better player than that, and not settling for that sort of salary is not a mark against him. If Calgary had a salary slot within hailing distance of his value and he chose not to come, that would be a different story, but once Bouwmeester signed, it was going to be a tight fit just to get a roster together.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 5, 2009 5:57 AM PST up reply actions
That said, he still may be had at the deadline.
Other, less heralded guys I’d like to see Sutter chase: Colby Armstrong and Alexei Ponikarovsky.
Ditto on Armstrong, but if Don Waddell trades him, he’s even more nuts than I already suspect. Guys that can play hard minutes and be productive for less than top salaries should be hoarded like the valuable commodities that they are. Armstrong isn’t the absolute bargain he was last year, but he’s quality to be sure.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 5, 2009 8:46 AM PST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Northwest Standings
Flames Schedule
Next 5 Games
Vancouver
|
Tue 09/21 | 6:00 PM PDT |
|
@
Vancouver
|
Tue 09/21 | 7:00 PM PDT |
|
Tampa Bay
|
Sat 09/25 | 6:00 PM PDT |
|
Phoenix
|
Tue 09/28 | 6:00 PM PDT |
|
@
New York Islanders
|
Wed 09/29 | 5:00 PM PDT |
Last 5 Games
|
@
Vancouver
|
Sat 04/10 | L 3 - 7 |
|
Minnesota
|
Thu 04/08 | SO - L 1 - 2 |
|
San Jose
|
Tue 04/06 | L 1 - 2 |
|
@
Chicago
|
Sun 04/04 | L 1 - 4 |
|
@
Colorado
|
Fri 04/02 | W 2 - 1 |
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- In which former NHL coach Ken Hitchcock foils a shoplifter
- Montreal's Price talks new 2-year contract, expectations post-Halak
- Donald Fehr aware of Kovalchuk drama, mum on everything else
- Puck Headlines: Savard's agent rants on Bettman; Halak in Montreal
- Boudreau, Crawford placed on the coaching hot seat
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
