Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Events Cause Mariners To Lose To Rangers

The Curse of the Flying Vee: G22, Flames @ Ducks Post-Game

Corsi

Scoring Chances

H2H Ice Time

ZoneStart, G22, Flames @ Ducks  

Last night's shootout loss to the Ducks hit a bit of a sore spot for me. I'm always annoyed by those little quirky streaks that teams and players randomly go on. You know the ones: Flames always lose on TSN (was that last year?), Khabibulin is a Flame killer, Flames never win afternoon games, Flames never win at the Pond/Joe Louis/Atlanta/Buffalo/ACC... yeah you know the ones.

Star-divide

First
EV Shots On Goal    : 11-6
EV Shots Toward Net : 16-12
EV Faceoff Starts   : 5-3
 
Second
EV Shots On Goal    : 7-6
EV Shots Toward Net : 10-9
EV Faceoff Starts   : 5-6
 
Third
EV Shots On Goal    : 17-7
EV Shots Toward Net : 24-14
EV Faceoff Starts   : 4-2
 
OT
EV Shots On Goal    : 4-6
EV Shots Toward Net : 8-6
EV Faceoff Starts   : 1-2
 
Overall
EV Shots On Goal    : 39-25
EV Shots Toward Net : 58-41
EV Faceoff Starts   : 15-13

So, the overwhelming consensus seems to be that the Ducks were lucky to win last night's game. On the back of a terrific Flames third period, mostly.

Not to this fan, though. What I saw was that:

  1. We got played to a draw at EV in the first two periods...
  2. On the back of their top unit negating our depth advantage...
  3. And got killed on special teams...
  4. And played a fantastic comeback period in the third with the Ducks playing prevent defense...
  5. But were altogether lucky to be down by only one goal at that point...
  6. And were pretty fortunate to salvage a point from this thing.

I think points #1 to #4 up top there aren't that contentious. Comment if you have a contention, though. But a friendly warning, I'll fight you :-)

But #5 and #6 will probably draw some criticism, just as the assertion that we were unlucky to be down 6-1 to Chicago and unlucky to lose the game in that manner drew some criticism four days ago.

But it's the truth, folks.

We talk about luck here and part of that is knowing that sometimes you just don't get the result in this game that you would have in a thousand other identical games. When you don't have an advantage at EV through two periods and are absolutely destroyed on special teams (to the tune of 1-7 in chances), the odds of losing the game are high, even before turning your playing-to-score switch to TURBO. And not to take away from that third period, it was perfect chase hockey, but the play up to that point would have made comebacks unlikely on most nights.

You don't want to read that, hell I don't want to write it, but if we're to be honest with ourselves, that's what happened.

Game notes:

  • I may have been overly harsh in my tirade against Olli Jokinen's first period last night. He was a disaster on the second goal, I won't take that back. But Lawrence in the comments is right to point out that his clearing flip pass that led to the Glencross goal was a safe play. We were stupid lucky that we got a breakaway from that, but it was a good defensive play.

    And Olli sure looked better after the thirty-minute mark. Though Iggy even more so, I thought, very hard to push 12 off the puck in that latter half. So that is something. It's been a few games now where that top unit has looked... not severely outclassed in aggregate? Just a bit outclassed now. So we are getting somewhere, and the "baby steps" label might not apply in a couple games. We'll see.
  • I was not that impressed by Mark Giordano nor Adam Pardy. They looked overmatched when they faced quality - I remember one particular shift in the second vs. Koivu and friends where Pardy gave away the puck under pressure from the forecheck, and Giordano was not able to handle the incoming forwards on the subsequent battle. Kent's count didn't show a chance against but there was definitely pressure.

    Giordano in particular was getting the love last night, and not that it's undeserved per se, but it's a bit much to say he was "better than Dion Phaneuf".

    Not to be rude, but my ass he was.

    Giordano was put in a position to succeed last night: five OFF zone draws and one DEF zone draw at EV. That makes you many things but a liability that night is generally not one of them. And if you're getting put in that gig, you're also getting a lot of minutes against the Marchant types or tired legs, and getting thrown over the boards to assist in the rush, and less so to defend against it. And as little time as your coach can manage against Getzlaf and co. with fresh legs. Easy to look like a star with that kind of ice time. Whereas Phaneuf - he got his share of OFF/DEF positioning too, but in a smaller measure than Giordano, and was as near as you get to a hard match with Regehr against the top Ducks unit.

    Context is everything, folks.

Comment 27 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Your comment on Gio is fair – he’s getting cherry minutes. That said, I think he’s been kicking ass at them recently, something that can’t actually be said of a number of third pairing defenders in this league (right, Cory Cross?).

You’re right, though, his game would be perceived differently if he was facing the big boys.

by Kent Wilson on Nov 24, 2009 1:05 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah, it’s nice that he is effective in that role. But that’s all that it is, there’s no favorable cross-comparison to be made with Phaneuf. Both make similar mistakes, the difference is one is doing it against scrubs and one is doing it against stars.

by R O on Nov 24, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions  

WI is not going to like that comment. Not. One. Bit.

by Kent Wilson on Nov 24, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually, I didn’t think Gio played that great last night myself, but didn’t feel like getting in the cross hairs! I thought Pardy did play well, though, the best I’ve seen from him. A number of times I was impressed by a D-man’s positioning, poise, play with the puck and was surprised to realize it was Pardy.

by maimster on Nov 24, 2009 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

She’s probably not going to be the only one.
(you knew I was opinionated when you signed me up for this thing :-)

by R O on Nov 24, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

listen…. i’m not interested in giving the love to gio undeservedly. and maybe i’m uneducatedly watching his play but i saw him pinching at appropriate times, holding the zone better than dion (consistently), and throwing more on-target shots towards the net than any other blueliner in a flaming C…. to my eye, without a doubt, he was stronger offensively than dion, and fought harder than regehr. maybe i’m wrong in the numbers but gio looked to be having a career game, and pardy to be following suit.

by walkinvisible on Nov 24, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m not at all disputing that he was good in the OFF zone, certainly he looked beastly in a couple shifts. And to that extent, no matter how good his minutes are, to do what Giordano does at the NHL level is a useful skill.

But last night he was doing all that largely against checkers, then next against second toughs, and not much at all against Getzlaf. And positioned shift after shift deep in the OFF zone or in transition going north. And he had some troubles when he was tasked with defending against Koivu.

Dion doesn’t get near as nice a treatment, granted he’s getting paid to play a much bigger role on this team. But that’s kind of the point in and of itself, Dion and Gio have different roles, Phaneuf’s is easily harder and thus we ought to judge accordingly.

Or am I offbase here?

by R O on Nov 24, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions  

That’s Dion Phaneuf’s fucking job, Richard, and he’s being handsomely compensated to do it. He makes 7 times more than Mark Giordano, so the better way to put it is that one guy is doing all that’s being expected of him at the price, and the other guy is Dion Phaneuf. If people want context, that sure as hell better be part of it too, don’t you think? Unless you’re arguing that the gap in performance between the two matches the salary spread, that is.

by Robert Cleave on Nov 24, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Unless you’re arguing that the gap in performance between the two matches the salary spread, that is.

A large part of that salary is paid for PP production, and we don’t have nearly the sample size to talk about it numerically. Even last season, we get some bollocksed looking numbers in terms of goal-assist splits.

So all I’ll say is that by my eye, Giordano is better at holding the line, and Phaneuf’s shot is more dangerous.

So it depends on how much of his contract you think should be paid for his EV play. If you want to go with a benchmark of $3.8MM (the midpoint between Regehr and Sarich), then my intuitive feeling on it is that his marginal contribution to EV defence over Giordano could be worth the marginal salary. Although I’m not sure. I’d love to see an actual hard-math look at it, maybe for another post.

And the additonal $2.7 MM for his PP contributions – well that looks like an overpay.

But the salary thing makes this a different issue I think. Gio > Phaneuf is a non-starter imo. If you want to argue that Gio + replacement-level dman + high-end forward who takes up Phaneuf’s cap space > Phaneuf + Gio + replacement-level forward, well that’s a different thing entirely and you won’t hear complaints from me, Robert.

by R O on Nov 24, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it was the salary distribution thing and the PP overpay I was aiming for R O, correct, and it’s a vexing problem for the team. Your last point is exactly how I should have phrased it in the first place.

by Robert Cleave on Nov 24, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

or not. I think it’s time for supper.

by Robert Cleave on Nov 24, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

RO, I’m just going to disagree with you in general and take the wimpy approach of not arguing about it. Maybe it looks different live, maybe I’m influenced by enemy crowd reactions. Hell, I wasn’t even that impressed by the Duck PP chances and they happened right in front of me, so maybe I’m completely and irrevocably biased. But points #5 and #6 are opinions, not truths, and I have a different opinion

by maimster on Nov 24, 2009 2:16 PM PST reply actions  

I think you’re more disagreeing with points #1 and #3 then (draw at EV, killed on special teams) which is fine, I wanted comments regarding that and I won’t even fight you for it :)

But if you took #1 – #4 up there to be true, then #5 and #6 necessarily follow.

by R O on Nov 24, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions  

One last thing to note about Olli and Iggy last night. Having a left winger that is within hailing distance of top-six at the NHL level would likely do them a world of good as well. Whatever we may think about the flaws of the big two, that left side has been unsettled all season. I like GlenX’s game as much as anyone, and Boyd is a sure step up from Lundmark, but that’s the one spot where the word “upgrade” really comes to mind.

by Robert Cleave on Nov 24, 2009 3:04 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah. I made that note over at the Flamesnation quarter pole round table – another legit top 6er makes this team a whole lot more balanced and dangerous.

by Kent Wilson on Nov 24, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

i felt it was 21s best game so far, the play didnt die with him all the time and he wasnt bobbling the puck all the time. some defensive miscues of course but hey that getzlaf line is good, zetterberg and datsyuk couldnt stop them (they outscored them tho).

25 is back to form i believe. looked a lot like last seasons mosster.

4 is just quality, love him. played most of his time against the getzlafs according to timeonice and ended up 7-3 in scoring chances.

i would like to see some more 16-21-12

by shep_ on Nov 24, 2009 3:20 PM PST reply actions  

Regehr/Bouwmeester kinda split Getzlaf duties last night, which is why Phaneuf and Reggie’s numbers suffered.

I agree on Moss though. Looks like he’s finally finding his footing again.

by Kent Wilson on Nov 24, 2009 3:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Bouwmeester basically took whatever time Reggie/Phaneuf aren’t against the toughs. And had enough gas to shut down Koivu and Selanne too.

That’s what is so good about him, even when the coach is trying to give the tough assignments to Regehr, Bouwmeester still gets sumthin-sumthin.

by R O on Nov 24, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

btw, what was getzlaf doing on iginlas goal?

by shep_ on Nov 24, 2009 3:26 PM PST reply actions  

I haven’t looked at the replay, but my initial impression upon viewing it in real-time was “sweet fuck all”.

by R O on Nov 24, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

That’s a great question. Even the announcers were baffled.

by Kent Wilson on Nov 24, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions  

is the shiftcharts app on timeonice not working for 2009-10 ?

by shep_ on Nov 24, 2009 3:30 PM PST reply actions  

Not that I can tell. I have the second-by-second data of who’s on the ice, just trying to parse it into a usable format now for these post-games. I have no experience with Excel though, but I figure if I write some sort of macro that takes in a CSV files and automatically colors in cells, that’ll be close enough.

Figuring and doing are two separate things though :-)

by R O on Nov 24, 2009 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

All this talk about Giordano reminds me of a guy who needs props: Boyd. He’s a guy I saw real good last night on a couple shifts, he and Nystrom pushed the puck all the way from north and made a difference-maker like Koivu look silly on the cycle.

I really value these young players who can play above their pay grade. Last year of course we had the winger troika (Bourque, Glencross, Moss) and Boyd may well yet join that rank of players. This type of player helps you win, no ifs ands or buts.

by R O on Nov 24, 2009 9:58 PM PST reply actions  

And by “play above their pay grade” I of course mean “play opponents above their pay grade” and, hand in hand, “play in circumstances above their pay grade”.

by R O on Nov 24, 2009 10:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree, I’m really heartened by Boyd’s play thus far. I think with Bourque down he might finally start seeing some time with the man advantage as well.

by Kent Wilson on Nov 25, 2009 8:45 AM PST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about the Calgary Flames.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Dsc03339_small
Sven, Sven, Sven Baertschi
Small
Roman Cervenka's Contract Structure and Why He's Worth Every Penny
Small
Erixon and Schultz.. The two bastards

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

37 - 29 - 16

Won 2


Certified Executives of the Office of Management

Photo_71_small Hayley

Officiants of the Bureau of Editing

E571c235251f6540d35494b73d613163_small Justin Azevedo

Ryan_small SO_RyanP

Dsc03339_small Mitch Smith

Bureaucrats

Luongo_small DownGoesLuongo

Redfordnewmanbutchcassidy19_small Scott Lepp

Mcinnismonday_small BookoflooB

381858_721102932987_120603131_37270080_1092957201_n_small LaToya12