Flames versus Blackhawks Gamethread
by Kent Wilson on Nov 19, 2009 5:47 PM PST
323 comments
Chicago Blackhawks at Calgary Flames, Nov 19, 2009 6:30 PM PST
If the Flames were a 9 year old girl, the 'Hawks would be the drooling monster under the bed. Chicago swept the season series last year, dismissed Calgary in the first round in the play-offs, treat Jarome Iginla like a prison bitch and created the unfortunate "the 5 goal lead is the most dangerous one in hockey" meme by handing the Flames perhaps their most embarrassing defeat in recent memory.
So, yeah...forgive me if I'm not too stoked about Calgary's chances tonight.
- It's not just that CHI has the Flames number. They are legitimately one of the best clubs in the league. And Marian Hossa hasn't skated a single game for them yet.
- At some point, Olli Jokinen is going to score some goals. It's bound to happen, because it's almost impossible to play as much as he does with the players he does and not have a few pucks bounce in. Hell, Bertuzzi did it the first 15 games or so last season. However, in direct contrast Jokinen's claim below, his lack of production is just complaint amongst a laundry list I have about his performance thus far. Unless he starts doing other things right, I'll likely continue to bemoan his play...even if his SH% bounces back up to career norms.
- Who gets the heavy lifting tonight? Jarome went back to seeing the toughs last game and he drowned against Stastny/Wolski. I can't imagine the battle going much better against the likes of Toews and Kane. Of course, Quenneville might just prefer matching Madden with Jarome, so it may not be an issue. Of course, given his performance against the Hawks the last year or so, it may not matter.
Let the bitter invectives flow!
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If the Flames were a 9 year old girl, the ’Hawks would be the drooling monster under the bed.
I laughed.
-Colin
Game lines are holding pretty steady – the Flames are a narrow favorite. Which surpises the hell out of me (even with Robert’s thing about the Chicago road record).
Still, I don’t have money riding on this game, and the people who do think that the Flames and Hawks are, for all intents and purposes, even.
I see the Leafs drew the short straw and were forced to win tonight.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 6:35 PM PST via mobile reply actions
OK so the FAN makes it seem like the Flames are applying early pressure. Also, attempted shots are 5-0 in CGY’s favor so far.
Sounds like the Calgary PP has had a couple chances but has had a couple attempts at gaining the zone thwarted.
Pretty much. One breakdown so far, but otherwise we are controlling the play… At least until Pardy’s penalty.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 6:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Yay for the futility of Toronto shooters! Now fuck, switch it the fuck over, save the pleasantries for someone whocares.
17 games without a legitimate win for Carolina though.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 6:58 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
And just like on Tuesday, we have too many idiots fishing for pucks rather than take bodies. Easy goal for Chicago. Betting Pardy is eating popcorn next game too.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 6:56 PM PST via mobile reply actions
It’s the same shit every time with Chicago. They get some garbage goal against us and then we lose our composure. It’s so flipping frustrating!
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
by KingJafi on Nov 19, 2009 7:00 PM PST via mobile reply actions
That should have been a penalty shot.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 7:07 PM PST via mobile reply actions
This team is a tucking joke on the pp. Just making it easy for them.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 7:10 PM PST via mobile reply actions
The Hawks are downright Red Wingian in their obstruction and interference tonight.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 7:12 PM PST via mobile reply actions
At least some of you get to watch the game on TSN and not on this Chicago channel. I gotta listen to Eddie O slob on these guys like they’re the greatest thing lace up skates.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
by KingJafi on Nov 19, 2009 7:13 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Ice is pretty oviously tilted towards the Chicago end of the rink at EV, which makes me very happy.
They need a hole ripped into them regarding the PP though.
Boy, it must chap Keenan’s ass that Kipper is playing lights out right now. If Kipper had even remotely this kind of October/November last year, odds on Keenan still has his job.
Don’t forget March…
Yeah, at this point the Keenan Flames were probably better than the Sutter Flames. No saying if Calgary will start putting things together going forward, but if they don’t, Keenan basically got the shaft.
I think of them as more the Playfair Flames to be honest. Wasn’t he the one who organized all of this “systems play” at EV? Or so the papers say, who knows, they are lying bastards anyway.
But Keenan was a generally good bench manager, Sutter is probably in the same mold. I think Playfair needs to come back though.
Looks just like the playoffs -
Hawks score and the Flames deflate faster than Oprah’s whoopee cushion
by Bonvie5ForFighting on Nov 19, 2009 7:29 PM PST reply actions
Fraser is the odd man out when Hossa is back
by Bonvie5ForFighting on Nov 19, 2009 7:42 PM PST reply actions
I’m not sure Fraser has won a fight in his career so far
by Matthew Dirt on Nov 19, 2009 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
so that was the exact opposite of an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object?
by Matthew Dirt on Nov 19, 2009 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
Unbelievably bad in gaining the zone tongiht.
And Sutter is really conservative, not even Keenan (who knew nothing about PPs) dared use Regehr on it.
Nothing more pathetic than a troll.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 7:52 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That was a team effort. Iggy was the 42nd pass. Puck should have been on net long before.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 7:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Dawes with a selfish penalty, then we get too cute with the puck. Two GA’s, and that’s game. Self-inflicted stupidity.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 7:50 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Why do they make these brutal mistakes against Chicago all the time ?
by Bonvie5ForFighting on Nov 19, 2009 7:55 PM PST reply actions
Please go back to your own blog if you have nothing worthwhile to contribute.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 7:59 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
3 and 28 get hung out to dry again by someone else’s retarded decision to change.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 7:56 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Seriously, WHAT...THE...FUCK??
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
And still are the better team, but for some stupid mental mistakes.
At least my nachos grande were excellent.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 8:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
How did the Flames come back against the Red Wings last season? Obviously with a good measure of luck, but also by keeping on keeping on with those good EV habits – short passes, controlled breakouts, commitment to backcheck, defensive zone awareness.
Betcha George Johnson was in the washroom during that fight.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 8:07 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I WAS ABOUT TO CALL IT
KANE GOAL…BUT I DIDNT WANT TO JINX IT
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
And the refs give the Hawks a free goal by giving Phaneuf am extra two for Seabrook’s cheap, dirty play.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 8:08 PM PST via mobile reply actions
They got 9 or 10 on the Oilers last year didn’t they? It could happen tonight.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 19, 2009 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry Fellas -
I meant no disrespect or ill will – Im a fan of the game and would be talking shit about the Hawks if the game was going the other way
by Bonvie5ForFighting on Nov 19, 2009 8:09 PM PST reply actions
This is just bullshit. Seriously. Bad luck and terrible officiating, two games in a row, sick of this shit. And the Flames are going to take a shit-kicking on talk radio, which is just going to annoy me tomorrow morning.
you cannot blame that period on officiating, sorry.
by walkinvisible on Nov 19, 2009 8:12 PM PST up reply actions
What do I blame it on then? The Flames are spending way more time in the Hawks zone at EV, getting some 50-50 chances, and the Hawks are up by 5?
What is that? Clutch? I find it hard to believe. Especially when luck plays such a big role in this game. And officiating is part of that bad luck.
We playing perimeter hockey in the hawks zone, yeah, we got possession but can’t do anything
Everyone (iggy and Gio in particular) are slow on the trigger, they get a pass and wait and wait to take the shot… it’s like they aren’t confident or are waiting for Huet to get out of position or something, and instead, it gets blocked
Ma that two fre goals. The hawks didn’t earn this, it was given to them on a silver platter.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 8:11 PM PST via mobile reply actions
You know what, i dont ever want to watch a Hawks Flames game again. It just makes me a real nasty person and absolutely ruins my night.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
At least this one wasn’t a PPV, like they usually are. Nothing worse than paying $15 to watch the Flames bend over.
I still don’t know how Phaneuf got the extra two there, but that is par for the course. We get shit on even by the refs when playing the Hawks. I’m hanging this all on Dawes. He took a stupid, selfish penalty on a clean hit and destroyed our momentum on top of costing a goal. Hat tip to Huet for that save too.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 8:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Sutter needs to send a message – bench a few and shorten the bench. YES I’m dreaming!!
by Calgarian in SJ on Nov 19, 2009 8:13 PM PST reply actions
Flames third jersey should be a black, leather S&M ensemble…and they should wear it only when playing the Hawks…
My summary of that period (missed #1, I was riding my bike in the garage… gotta stay fit for skiing..)
-We won the zone / posession battle.
-Got bad luck early with some big saves (Huet channeling his euro-soccer roots? that woulda been a hell of a punch out for a soccer goalie)
-We took dumb penalties, got lazy on changes, and paid for it on the scoreboard
-We lost our composure.
We lose our composure every game against these chumps.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
This game is making me nervous. It has all the makings of a “turning-point” game a la the SJ game last season. Except I generally like the game the Flames are playing at EV (it’s not perfect but them’s the breaks) and I’m afraid that if Sutter changes this up that he’s going to ruin the start of a good thing.
Really? Im of the opposite opinion. I think the Flames have been middling at best and that a game like this was inevitable against a good opponent.
I think the Flames have been middling at best
I was talking about tonight (and the previous game too). I think the ice is even more tilted tonight than against the Avs on Tuesday, and considering who we’re playing tonight and whta they’ve been doing this season, that’s saying something.
But the special teams are an unmitigated disaster.
Fair enough. On the whole, though, the Flames have looked mighty average to me. I think their record is deceptive. A game like this happens to everyone, but the percentages were bound to kick the Flames in the teeth at some point.
I think it depends…
We are having good rounds of possession in the O zone, which is nice for a change, but we aren’t getting anything from it because we seem content to play on the perimeter, and our top guys aren’t pulling the trigger…
A lot of our bad habits (standing around fishing pucks and slow changes) are still around, and tonight we are getting burned by them. I don’t think they are any worse than most of our games this year. We just aren’t catching the good breaks for a change…
So: positive, we are doing more O possession
Negative: everything else is the same and we are getting burned by it tonight for a change.
So you can watch and see the possession and see progress and look at bad luck compared to our luck up to this point, or you can see all the problems still around and a reversion to the mean.
Flames just don’t play great in the Dome … not like in the old days. Infuriating to see other team come into Calgary and manhandle the Flames …. without the Flames setting the tone, instead relying on retaliation penalties to kill any momentum.
by Calgarian in SJ on Nov 19, 2009 8:24 PM PST reply actions
any other team would make this competitive. flames will ultimately lose 9-2. yes, we lost to cristobal huet. and we used to think it was khabi…
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
This game completely reminds me of Game 5 in the playoffs last year. Every reason to win and we lay a big fat f’ing turd.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
the Sutters have a thing for not admitting to making mistakes
by Calgarian in SJ on Nov 19, 2009 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
If I recall game 5 was a horrible showing by the Flames. This reminds me more of game 6 – an excellent effort in the aggregate, but getting bent over by the hockey gods.
Kinda like how the Wild feel against us.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 8:30 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Used to feel against us.
Everyone bends those guys over now.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
I become less convinced of the value of Corsi with each passing game.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 8:31 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I’m aware of that. By definition, it does not paint a complete picture of a game.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 8:35 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Good job posting the Corsi there, bud. Some telling stats right there. Look at the Jokinen figures. Stunning. Set up the formula in the form of a double integral, bounded by 12 and 21, the jersey numbers he has worn in the NHL. Take the cubic root of his Corsi, divide by the speed of light in a vacuum, subtract it by the mass of two moles of iridium, raise that to the power of e, multiply it by Olli’s EVSH%/60 in Novembers, and add the altitude correction factor in Calgary. You will find the likelihood of Jokinen scoring a shorthanded goal in the first 10 minutes of the 35th game of the season. It aint pretty. Yuck. Replace it with Boyd’s numbers.You got yourself a date with Lord Stanley right there. Now that’s some math you can show your teachers.
by Dustin Timberlake on Nov 19, 2009 8:39 PM PST up reply actions
Kipper out?
Why put McE in? I don’t think Kipper had much he could do about some of those goals, esp. the last two.
One positive is that the Hawks are still playing an agressive forecheck by the looks of it. So there’s hope for a couple goals.
It’s like the flames have never been introduced to this little black rubber disk..
I heard in his Junior days Brent used to hit a point where he’d just get pissed off and make all the players play with wood sticks… maybe that’s what we need, a little return to the old school.
Of course he is. This just like all those nights in Florida. He feels right at home.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 19, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
Bfug is the worst out of all of them. He really relishes kicking the shit out of us.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
i would love it if byfug wore the flaming C. since he doesn’t, i hate him.
by walkinvisible on Nov 19, 2009 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
I know this has been beat to death … I just have to say it …..
WHY IS MCGRATTAN ON THE FLAMES. I just don’t get it.
by Calgarian in SJ on Nov 19, 2009 8:40 PM PST reply actions
You dont want Byuff -
This is one of maybe 5 games where he has played like he gave a shit. If it werent for the injuries, Quennville would have put him up in the pressbox for 3 straight like he did last year. We all thought that he “got it” after the playoffs last year, but he has come out floating for the most part this season
by Bonvie5ForFighting on Nov 19, 2009 8:43 PM PST reply actions
Why not eh?
Did you record this game Kent? I can’t be the only one who thought the Flames were tilting the ice in the first two periods… can I?
No, you're not the only one
I watched up ‘til it was 4-1 and didn’t even see what led to the breakaway. But the Flames were by far the better team up to that point. I turned it off at 4-1 because I knew that a) it was going to get ugly, b) this was probably due to the Flames (losing a game they shoudn’t). But if they play like that, more than the first 15 games, they’ll be fine. Even against Chicago.
Corsi numbers now?
Probably going to be huge Corsi numbers now. Somehow, it should be normalized by whether you’re behind or ahead in the game.
Shots 13 minutes in are 3-1 for us. They aren’t even trying while we can’t do anything right.
by Resolute on Nov 19, 2009 8:46 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Little fact that just makes everything feel that much better: Hawks match their best goal output of the season. Last time they had 6 goals, against the Flames in October. Talk about getting owned.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
Well whatever. Part of me hopes they get the lashings, if only so they can fix the damn special teams. That part of their game I was completely unimpressed by.
I don’t know about lashings or anything. Just one of those nights where every quality chance goes in (while none of yours do).
the problem is that that things that burned them tonight, should, by all rights, burn them most nights this season…
So, I can’t buy the idea that this is just one of those games…
Our top guys don’t want to do the work required… and until that changes…
If you want to think of that way, then you might say we are paying the devil his dues. We diddn’t deserve some of those early wins, but surely this game we deserved better than zero goals on EV. Context considered (esp. the quality of the opposition) this was probably the best EV game played thus far.
Possession only,
We still can’t get to scoring positions,
We still take bad shots right into shins, chests, arms, sticks, etc
Our leaders still play on the fringe,
We still give up bad line change odd man rushes
The last point, I agree with. Man that was a horrid change.
I thought Iginla and Jokinen played less of a perimeter game today though, esp. in the first when they looked dangerous. I think Kent could confirm this, he was counting scoring chances for the last half of the first.
And possession is key, it drives everything imo. Of course I might be the only one tonight who is willing to die on this hill, but that’s what I’m going to do.
Jokinen and Iginla were high event tonight, which I guess is slightly better than getting your head kicked in.
Langkow’s line did nothing. Of course, Bourque was out for the latter half of the game.
Thursday, January 21st
The next time we can have another pleasant evening like this one.
Spreading that Calgary Flames, Montreal Expos, The U, and Orlando Magic love.
I didn’t have a chance to see the whole thing, but being outchanced 8-5 at EV in the first two periods doesn’t sound like a team that was dominating, at least to me.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 19, 2009 9:15 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, damn, that count is surprising. Maybe my perception was off? Wishful thinking?
I dunno.
Damn this game.
Keep in mind, I missed the first 10 minutes of the game during which the Flames apparently had a number of good chances.
Maybe that gets them to even for those two periods. I still worry about where the goals are going to come from.. The shooting has started to normalize, and they’ve scored 19 goals in regulation over the last 10 games, with 5 coming against a Leaf team that has no clue in its own end. I just don’t know…
by Robert Cleave on Nov 19, 2009 9:23 PM PST up reply actions
The first 20 games has me again wondering what the value of investing so much money in the back end is. The shots on net are still really high and there doesn’t seem to be any appreciable improvement defense wise (aside from Kipper playing better). And with Jokinen struggling, the club dosn’t seem to have the horses to push the puck forward consistently.
How long have we been talking about rebalancing the payroll from the D to the forward spots? I hope we don’t end up sounding like poor Lowetide, forever complaining about an unbalanced roster. Sutter’s fixed a few things lately, but they aren’t good enough up front, at least to my eye.
by Robert Cleave on Nov 19, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, too many Indians and not enough Chiefs… or to change from a un-PC colloquialism to hockey terms: Too many shooters not enough playmakers. I’d kill for a Savard right now, heck I’d wound for a Tanguay right now.
Really though we’re playing a guy we picked up on waivers in one slot on the top six and have a revolving door of quality grinders on another while carrying 8 defensemen (including Kronwall). Something ought to give pretty quick.
I would propose that if the Flames had a guy with top six playmaking skills Jokinen would look more like a $5m center.
I also really want them to stop the revolving door of LW’ers with those two None of Moss, Glencross, Nystrom, or Sjostrom look at all comfortable. I’d rather they slot Boyd into the LW slot, let Conroy center the 3rd line and reunite Prustrom and just stick with it for a while.
Good job posting the Corsi there, bud. Some telling stats right there. Look at the Jokinen figures. Stunning. Set up the formula in the form of a double integral, bounded by 12 and 21, the jersey numbers he has worn in the NHL. Take the cubic root of his Corsi, divide by the speed of light in a vacuum, subtract it by the mass of two moles of iridium, raise that to the power of e, multiply it by Olli’s EVSH%/60 in Novembers, and add the altitude correction factor in Calgary. You will find the likelihood of Jokinen scoring a shorthanded goal in the first 10 minutes of the 35th game of the season. It aint pretty. Yuck. Replace it with Boyd’s numbers.You got yourself a date with Lord Stanley right there. Now that’s some math you can show your teachers.
by Dustin Timberlake on Nov 19, 2009 9:13 PM PST reply actions
i postulated, over at mine that since the mayan calendar ends on december 21, 2012 (signalling the end of the world), iggy/olli/glenX should be dubbed “the apocalypse line.” 12/21/20(12).
by walkinvisible on Nov 19, 2009 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
easiest way to tell that sutter is UNIMPRESSED: gio with 23:08 TOI !!!! that’s freakin’ more than jaybouw (23:01), regehr (20:13), dion (20:13), pardy (19:25) and sarich (13:50)…. those numbers are totally out of sync with the norm….
Nothing warms my heart like a good ol’ drubbing of the neighbours in Cowtown
RT40 writes with An Oilers Refinery and is an avid hockey fan.
From the Herald today:
A reporter then asked if there was a problem with leadership in the dressing room.
"There’s things that I don’t want to discuss, but I know. I know what they are. But we are trying to deal with it. "It starts with your top players and works on down."
Jokinen?
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