Flames Versus Canucks Gamethread
by Kent Wilson on Oct 16, 2009 5:00 PM PDT
261 comments
Vancouver Canucks at Calgary Flames, Oct 16, 2009 6:00 PM PDT
Lots of talk about learning curves lately and how the players are still trying to figure out the new system(s). What's been overlooked is the fact that Brent Sutter and co and probably going through a learning curve of their own. A number of Brent's assumptions have been tested through the first 7 games, with some no doubt passing (Jay Bouwmeester is indeed an excellent defensemen) and others, well...not (Olli Jokinen isn't a "#1 center"). As the players figure out what is expected of them on the ice, Sutter will be figuring out what exactly he has in terms of staff and how best to deploy them.
I was asked during my CBC appearance when Brent Sutter might think of breaking up the Iginla/Jokinen duo. My response was, in short: when it starts costing the team some games. Cue a few losses and the new combinations. I'm not sure what Jokinen with the 'stroms is going to accomplish, nor if Iginla is going to continue to see the heavy lifting now that he's with Conroy (my guess: probably) but this is all part of the experiment - now that he's realized he doesn't have a Zach Parise to lean on in Calgary, Sutter's search to properly workable match-ups begins in earnest. Some of that will involve randomization, no doubt, until something clicks and the pieces fall into place. As the process continues, we can only expect (at best) slight, incremental improvements.
Luckily Vancouver has it's own problems. Down one Sedin and one Salo, the Canucks are skating a raw rookie on the first line and have had to shuffle the defense pairings. Via Yankee Canuck of Nucks Misconduct:
Two chief concerns are the layoff and injuries. It's been five days since they beat Dallas so the rust factor is worrisome. We already know their injury problems and the fact the cavalry (Schneider and Demitra) aren't close to returning. As a result, Vigneault has changed his defensive pairings so Iginla and Conroy will see a healthy dose of Mitchell and Bieksa. Vigneault also mixed up the bottom six, bumping slumping Ryan Johnson alongside the equally slumping Wellwood and Bernier. And he's tapped Michael Grabner, first rounder pick from 2006, to replace Daniel Sedin in his first NHL outing tonight. Grabner should be the fastest player out there for both teams (Grabner's faster than Raymond? Really? - ed.), but what that actually equates to is unknown.
So if there's a positive for Calgary, it's that they're facing an experiment. But an experiment that has to come out like caged wolverines unleashed in a petting zoo. They were passive and weak on the puck in the season opener and it cost them. Tonight has to be different if they want the points.
That sounds nice, but Vancouver has been the better team by a couple of miles by my eye through the first few weeks. It'll take a long fall South by them or a sizable improvement by the Flames (or a little of both) for Calgary to come away with the 2 points this evening.
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Can anyone link me to that handy internet feed? I’m not near a tv but I’d like to watch as much as possible tonight. Thanks.
Atdhe.net, I believe
And I disagree that the canucks have been better. Luongo has been bad, and their D hasn’t been a lot better. Too many good chances against.
by Resolute on Oct 16, 2009 5:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Vancouver is third in the league in terms of shots on net per game (36) and their shot differential is well in the black (+8.6). Flames are at the other end of the spectrum (23 S/G, -10). Luongo has struggled for sure, but the Canucks have probably been the better team relative to the Flames by a fair margin.
Better, sure. But they barely have half the game figured out themselves.
by Resolute on Oct 16, 2009 5:58 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Is it wrong to feel like my brain is oozing out of my ear when I listen to Doug MacLean? Just wondering…
I do have really good earplugs, come to think of it. Thanks for the reminder, Subversive.
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
two fights at the same time?
sweet.
St Louis Game Time: Let's Go Blues!
Block U: a blog about the University of Utah
You can find me on the twitter: @achidester
He was out with Sarich for the second half of the PP, Kent.
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions
wow, great sequence. too bad they didn't score.
St Louis Game Time: Let's Go Blues!
Block U: a blog about the University of Utah
You can find me on the twitter: @achidester
great goal.
St Louis Game Time: Let's Go Blues!
Block U: a blog about the University of Utah
You can find me on the twitter: @achidester
thanks for this… i’d thought gio looked less than awesome tonight :)
by walkinvisible on Oct 16, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Dunt he tho
I like Olli as a 4th-line center. He’d be fantastic in that role. This fantasy only works if — among other things — Boyd forces his way up the depth chart.
Greetings. You can tell a fair opposition fan when they come by to comment when their team is losing.
Love how Vancouver fans louuuuuu the puck hitting the post – twice!
by Resolute on Oct 16, 2009 6:37 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I have the Flames ahead on scoring chances, 8-5. Most of the Canucks opps came near the end of the period.
That sounds right. I checked the Corsi with a few minutes to go and it was +3 CGY. I’m sure it was even better early on.
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Already updated
EV shots Tied 6-6
Corsi: Flames are 3 (14/-11)
Sometimes the PbP sheet gets revised for clerical errors as they go.
Thanks, Matt. Corsi now +3 CGY after revisions.
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup, just 3 times more expensive, give or take. He’s really doesn’t seem aware of what’s happening a lot of the time.
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions
HIs decision making is so poor. He looks better playing against nobodies, however.
I thought the Flames were decent at ES right up until the Canucks starting pushing back at the end. I’m fairly surprised they’re ahead in terms of ES shots on net.
yes, i felt the flames carried the play for the first 18 minutes. surprised by the 6-10 corsi.
i’m browsing capgeek like crazy trying to find a good match for a jokinen dump (as if)
I had trouble trading him in NHL10 the video game. Even the artificial intelligence didn’t want him.
impossible. no matter which way you look….
by walkinvisible on Oct 16, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
EV TOI among forwards is pretty even right now, I think Sjorstrom has the most but there were a lot of penalties this period.
Iginla has 6:43 total time (3:24 EV), Jokinen has 7:28 total time (4:01 EV). They’re not getting punished I say, in fact I tink Jokinen got double shifted, I swear I saw him with Iggy and Glencross.
Like the first game, that was an excellent period by Calgary. Just have to keep it up now. I think the fact that one Sedin isn’t here and Jokinen isn’t facing the other one is helping.
You’re suggesting Kyle Wellwood isn’t quite as imposing?
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Because Darryl Sutter had half a million bucks burning a hole in his pocket?
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Bobby Lou. Although you can use either one ;-)
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions
A bouque(t) by any other name would smell as sweet, would it not?
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions
So do we keep playing the uptempo style that has put us up 3-0, or do we go into a futile shutdown defense?
The Langkow line is actually not doing so well (approx 1 EV shot for, 4 EV shots against) but they are being used in a checking role I believe.
4th line is dominating. It damn well better be since Jokinen is on it.
And Boyd cashes in, nice.
Did McGrattan almost score?
wait Boyd just notched one. WHOO!
I rip on the guy as much as anyone, but being as bad as Godard would be a stretch even for McG.
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions
this is worthy of my acknowledgment… period.
by walkinvisible on Oct 16, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m 99% positive Glencross will get Phaneuf’s goal eventually.
Nice goal there by McGrattan, but the credit on the 4-0 goal goes something like 80% Prust, 19% Boyd, 1% McG.
darryl's smile
camera pans over sutter watching the 4-0 with his typical frown and my wife comments that it must be vancouver’s coach :P
Kipper making some saves
facing some sustained pressure now.
Surprised they haven’t pulled 7uongo.
by Resolute on Oct 16, 2009 7:33 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Wild outshooting EDM 20-10 at Rexall, and down 3-1. I’m not sure if there’s any good teams in the NW this year, though the Flames are playing one on TV tonight.
Vic Ferrari has a saying: it’s a sign of maturity and unselfishness when a player gets the puck deep at the end of his shift rather than try to beat one more guy at the blue line.
Olli Jokinen is immature and selfish.
Corsi’s now +1 Canucks. EV holds at 16-13 Vancouver.
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Let’s just say the Flames started playing to the score, allowing the Canucks to go up marginally in terms of outshooting. Feel better?
I think they also accumulated a bunch of shots during the two shifts after Giordano lost his edge. Nothing you can do about that.
Anyways, the product on the ice looks quite alright right now, and that’s not entirely because of the score.
On this topic, the Flames do look better but they still have Jokinen and Iginla doing relatively little (5 shots between them, zero points). While the shift in lines has meant they are less of a liability, they’re both still fairly absent at the good end of the rink. Until Calgary’s most expensive two forwards start doing something in the offensive zone, it’s going to be tough to get ahead of anyone in terms of outshooting.
And lord, yes. if you’re still not sure.
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve somehow only ever seen Blazing Saddles once, despite it being in my age range and basically right in my wheelhouse all around. Curses!
I’m nearly speechless. Anyway:
Bart: Now, I suppose you’re all wondering just what in the heck you’re doing out here in the middle of a prairie in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night.
Crowd: You bet your ass.
Bart: I’m hip.
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Haven’t read all the comments, but I’m surprised that VCR is ahead in Corsi. Feels to me like the Flames have had the better of it all night, except for a couple of spurts. Of course that could just be a relative feeling compared to the last few games.
Every Canuck fan in the building is near tears right now.
by Resolute on Oct 16, 2009 7:53 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
"He can do it at both ends"
Not often I talk out loud to Peter Loubardias, but I admit I just mumbled a That’s What She Said there.
I don’t actually listen to Simmer, but other than him, the only thing worse than Loubardias’ so called play by play is Millions’ so called interviewing. If he manages to get out a coherent question, he’ll answer it himself before turning over the mic.
All around horrific broadcast team on SNet. I can’t believe they’re getting a second year in this configuration.
Boyd should probably have gotten first star. In less than 10 minutes he has 3 scoring chances himself and probably set up moer than I don’t remmeber.
Iginla had 5 shots though, I bet most on the PP.
Yup, just reviewed the highlights and he set up McG’s goal too. He accounted for 4 of 14 scoring chances. Seriously.
I think he’s been one of the 3-4 best players all year, just snakebit. However, now that he’s on the 4th line again, I worry that he’s just going to stay buried.
Yeah I wish he had played on the PP, at some point in the next 3-5 years this team is going to need forwards with offensive talent (plus a clue in the D-zone) and Boyd is the best bet. Plus Jokinen is gone next year (knock on wood) and what better way of seasoning Boyd for a role in diriving offense than to give him some time on the PP?
OK, there is either something wrong with Iggy or he’s done. Did you see how he went into the corner after the puck in his own end, near the end of the game? Only one of a bunch of bad Iggy highlights this year, but he looked like he had a pole in his ass as he approached the corner. Seriously, it looked like he could barely skate – is it his back? It is jarring to watch.
Reggie looked better. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s still in late term recovery mode from the injury that ended his season last year. Who knows how it affected his summer.
Of course, I’m a full time Reggie apologist (not quite to the WI/Gio level, but close).
(but i love being considered a “gio apologist”….. i’m good with that. seriously)
by walkinvisible on Oct 16, 2009 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
No EV chances with Jokinen on the ice, eh? It’s believable, but I do remember the Glencross-to-Jokinen tip off the post in the first, was that on the PP? (is it the one at 6:07 of the first?)
I think so, R O, because I remember them coming right back up ice after a chance against.
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup, just checked the PBP, Samuelsson with a chance, then the Jokinen tip on the PP.
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes. Just saw the replay of it, in fact.
by Robert Cleave on Oct 16, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions
i’ve got jokinen on my fantasy team. i’ve benched him for a week or two now.
by walkinvisible on Oct 16, 2009 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m thinking that the Canucks got urgent and pulled out all the stops to get momentum for tomorrow.
But for the most part this was the Flames best game albeit only 50 minutes of it but this something good work on the powerplay wasn’t the greatest and Iggy still hasn’t found himself.
But can we can’t complain we dominated the Canucks physically and through out 3 1/2 quarters of the game.
Where the Lead is never safe, Ahead or Behind.
why is it that i’m showing up at the end of the game to throw my (late) two cents in and nobody’s really given props to brian mcgrattan. listen: i will never LOVE the guy, but let’s give credit where it’s due. that guy DIDNT drop the gloves when goaded to, which led to an assist on the boyd goal: he kept with the play instead of stopping to fight. later: GOAL. wow. i’m totally floored by his achievement. a gordie howe hattrick is nothing to scoff at.
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